Reply To: Is abortion Murder?

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No reasonable person thinks that abortion is not murder.

Its a completely ridiculous idea that removing a neshomo from a guf is not murder bc of the physical location of the guf.

The neshomo comes in at 40 days. This is chazal.

By definition killing is the removal of a neshomo from a guf. Killing is actually called נטילת נשמה. When done premeditatively it is murder.

The Rambam calls the halchos of murder הלכות רוצח ושמירת נפש. Emphasis on nefesh. Which comes in at 40 days.

If you think you have a source that says as such you are simply misreading or it is a false source (like the false Rashba R Moshe exposes)

Its a mefurash chazal that has no cholkim that the issur comes from שופך דם האדם באדם – The prohibition of murder.

There are no gemoras and no rishonim who dispute this. End of discussion. I am just quoting R Moshe. Anyone who argues is simply making things up wo any basis at all. Again , R Moshe in language he never uses. This is what R Moshe says. He also writes שרי ליה מאריה on the חכם אחד (the tzitz Eliezer) a very derogatory term. Not R Moshes way at all. This was clearly a breach of halakhic norm not just another legitimate machlokes. The tzitz Eliezer let his pity on Tay Sachs babies and or their parents overide clear halocho and R Moshe called him out on it . Tay Sachs is indeed horrible and people like Reb Eliezer here also seem to think that that is enough of a basis to be mattir. Bc the Torah can’t be cruel like that. The tzitz Eliezer fell into the same trap Reb Eliezer did.

Nothing is ever more chamur in Din for a goy over a Jew. Only the punishment goyim are chayyav misa for things yidden are not.
But you never find that for a yid something is muttar and for a goy it is assur.

And bichlal to say that it is murder for a goy but not for a yid is simply absurd and irrational. Either it is murder or it isn’t. You can’t just make things up. Again, removing a neshomo from a guf is killing by definition. When premeditated and not a shliach Beis Din or a השכם להורגו situation it becomes murder. By definition.

The fact that there is no chiyyuv misa on abortion could be like was quoted in the name of R Tendler. Or more simply, it is like not being chayyav misa for premeditated murder via a grommo. To actually be chayyav misa it is not enough to murder, there are other technicalities involved that we can speculate as to why they are true. But killing via a grommo is no less murder than killing direct regardless of the penalty.