Reply To: Silencing the Psychotic Medication Debate

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#2141001
AviraDeArah
Participant

peach – what if a child wore a skirt that covered her knees in the 3rd grade, but proceeded to wear it in the 4th grade? would the school not be justified in saying that it was too short because the student grew?

if a child grows in the middle of the year, is that a heter to let them dress untznius? why does that equal “shaming”? are the schools saying that gaining weight itself is bad, or are they saying that they need to dress in ways that adapt to their shape? is it more the girls themselves who are under the impression that gaining weight is bad, and the social pressure of being skinny…comes from they themselves (and of course their homes and society at large)?

as for not reacting to abuse – that was a valid claim 10 years ago. It’s not being swept under the rug anymore; the frum community wasn’t far behind the rest of the world’s movement towards exposing and punishing perpetrators. I agree that having a database is a good idea, in fact. I also think it’s a good idea to distance proven offenders (and a judge saying so isn’t enough) from children by any means necessary, and require such people to carry medicine on their person at all times which kills their taavah.

bringing out how men view womens’ clothing is important, because, like it or not (and im sure you dont like it) halacha mandates tznius, in part, because of lifnei iver. Women are punished, severely so, for causing men to sin with their eyes. Before you jump on “mind your business” – halacha doesn’t say that. It’s wrong, and it’s an example of megaleh panim batorah shelo kahalacha. The poskim are crystal clear that a woman is held accountable for men sinning if she dressed provocatively. Therefore, informing girls of this responsibility, and making them aware of how men see certain styles which to the girl herself might seem innocent, is a part of chinuch. It’s not objectification, it’s building awareness of how they are seen.

On the contrary, letting our girls dress in ways that make them seen as objects to men (i.e., your “open me” example) is objectification.

but but but…why dont you tell men not to look at it that way?

Why don’t you tell men not to enjoy steak, or women not to enjoy shopping? Hashem understands the natural desires of people and they’re not evil; quite the opposite, the desire for procreation keeps the world going and is integral to forming a marriage