Reply To: Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky and the modern State of Israel

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Chaim87
Participant

@DaMoshe
Also worth noting that there were many good and bad even among the nonf rum. So ben gurion was a rasha and i think that clear. He was out to shmad. We see how he kidnaped innocent children born after the holocaust and immigrants tearing them away from their mothers just to raise them in a non frum kibbutz. He was a murderer too as what occured with Began and the boat. On the other hand, Began was righteous despite being mostly secular (half frum). He commanded his army not to shoot back at ben gurion because we don’t shoot at other jews. This was after Ben Gurion YMS killed any of Began’s people. As it pertains to the war, yes the Zionists on charge then such as Ben Gruron and his ilk said one cow in Palestine is better than 1000 jews in Europe. They impeded R Michoel ber zl henceforth, Ben Hecht book.On the other hand there were members of the Zionist underground who were cooperative and did save jews. I don’t recall if Gisi felishman wa s a zionist but she was not frum yet saved jews. Thne you had jews like Samu (Shmuel) Stern, who its very hard to know what the right thing to do was during the war. Do you try to cooperate with germans to save a few which he did? Or do you tell everyone to run and hope more survive? Hindsight is always 20/20. I suspect many of the zionists were stuck with that dilemna too

Either way there is amesora form many holy people like R Wolfson and the Rizyna rebas that the founding of the state of Israel was a good thing, albiet onlt “shiveri kelim”