Joseph:
The “sefer in question” has been somewhat controvertial even in Lakewood Ir hakodesh, from what i’ve heard, for the reasons I stated, plus others. Personally, I see a value to it for some people, and toatally inappropriate for others. Therefor, it cannot be a book for the hamon am. (imagine Satmar putting out a book on tznius: seamed stockings, hat on shaitel, etc. would it be accepted in other kehillos?)
Of course I realize that men are affected, but to suggest that the mitzva of tznius is solely to protect the men is doing severe injustice to the mitzva. A woman (and man) is supposed to be tzanua even amongst people of their own gender, and even in private.
Another reason that women’s Tznius is a “mens issue” is for the same reason that men learning in kollel is also a women’s issue: It is a partnership which both need to be on the same page for. Often, much more often than you would care to admit, it is the men who insist that their wives dress in the manner they do. All of “fashion” is probably based on that, getting the attention of men. Our men are not immune. So I definitely agree that if we are going to address the issue of tznius, men need to be on board so that they could support their wives in dressing more tzanua, and not c”v make them be nichshal.
However, I will stick to my assertion that when it comes to specifics, it is neither wise nor tzanua for the men to do so in a public format. Please note that in the Lakewood asifa, it was a woman who went into the specifics for the women. I am sure that was not a coincidence.
You write, “So I think this thought that only women should be addressing such specifics stems from a 21st (or 20th) century approach towards gender, propogated by the secular world.” Again, (besides for the possible tznius issue–which as you said needs to be addressed to a competent rav) I base my view largely on what is EFFECTIVE, not just what’s right.
(You may have wondered why I use the screen name think BIG. It is actually a pet peeve of mine. You see, humans often have a tendency to think small in so many important areas. When a person thinks small, or narrow, they see things as black and negative and focus on blame. He focuses on petty or unimportant details, or thinks along lines that are simply innefective. When a person’s consiousness is expanded, his thoughts are more solution oriented, and he’s able to see things in a much more positive and TRUE frame of mind. Often two people see the same reality but come to two separate conclusions. Hence, they live in two separate realities. Think BIG is a reminder to myself to have expanded consiousness as opposed to constricted consiousness.)
(I remember my driving teacher used to say, “you can be dead and right at the same time”.)
My point here is that being right is not what counts, being effective is. And in my opinion, as a woman, it would be far more effective for girls and women to hear these messages from other women, who are models of tznius and good taste, and could relate to their struggle, as opposed to a man.
You know that I work in a girls school. The men on staff do not get involved in the tznius on a personal basis. They leave that up to the women. So, i know that my “opinion” is not mine alone, and propbably does not stem from a 21st century mentality.
Regarding your statement, “Perhaps the more correct term for what you are describing is minhugim or customs of tznius, rather than “gray areas.” I think gray areas are understood to mean areas that the law is not entirely explicitly clear and requires additional input from our Rabbonim.” Call it what you will, but I am referring to customs that the law has not said that it is assur, yet people in certain kehillos find them to be attractive, hence they would be assur.
As regards to the style issue, maybe a year is not enough, but that wasn’t the point. I obviously was not referring to a style that is inherently pritzus. For example, a while back it became the style to wear very long skirts. Nothing inherently wrong with that. The teachers in my Bais yaakov would admonish the girls if their skirts were too long. Then the style became even longer, down to the shoes. It no longer was a problem to wear it several inches above that, which was the problematic length before.
In the chassidish school, Bobov (Bnos tzion) in Brooklyn, years ago the uniform in the high school was to wear a sort of vest which was similar to a men’s vest. Then about 15 years ago or so, it became the “style” to wear that type of vest. Thats what they were selling in the stores. Bobov discontinued that part of the uniform, and actually forbade it. (I dont know what they do today, now that its no longer in style) I can give you ten of such examples, but i will spare you. The point is that we are obviously NOT referring to clothing that is inherently pritzus, or trash style, as you put it, for that is never allowed. We are referring to articles of clothes that come into style, but are otherwise refined and tzniusdik.
Finally, you want to know my personal opinion of jean skirts, and I’m afraid that I will have to pass on that. My personal opinion hardly matters. What I do know is that the material “denim” was accepted years ago in many (chassidish) places where they are not today. For example, I know someone who went to camp Gila, many years ago, and remembers when the camp instituted a new rule that denim skirts were no longer allowed. Up to that point, they had no issue with it. Over the years the jean skirts began to take on a new “tzurah” (faded, ripped, tight) which certainly did not befit a bas yisroel. But you can still find denim or jean skirts that are refined.
To the best of my knowledge, jean skirts are accepted in Bais Yaakov style camps,(if I’m wrong, someone please tell me) and among Bais Yaakov girls in America. It has never been considered to be the same as a man wearing jeans, which i agree with you is not acceptable for a ben torah. (perhaps one can say it’s because goyim [often lower class, or casual dressed] wear jeans, whereas no goy wears a long denim skirt!) Of course, some people who try to have a higher level of tznius than what is accepted, choose to stay away from them (and other things that are otherwise considered acceptable). But again, my personal opinion hardly matters. What matters is what those bigger and better than me decide.