Reply To: Tznius: a woman’s issue

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joseph, and postsemgirl:

Yes the issue with styles, especially the fact that they come from pruste designers in paris, whose main goal is to get you to look as attracting as possible, is definitely a problem. Why people want to follow trends is part of their yetzer hara, I guess, similar to the yetzer hara to keep up the jonses or to talk loshon hara. But it is nevertheless a fact of life and comes from an underlying root (low self image?)

Incidentally, I feel that the male side of the population has the same issue, just not as obvious. In the little leeway a yeshiva guy has, you might find him following the trend too: his glasses, his tie, belt, shoes…even the hat you wear is different from the one they wore 20 years ago.

You joseph are not a style guy, and I dont know your wife, but I will assume that she is not into styles either. (I am not either, btw) But the fact that it exists should not be shoved under the carpet. It must be dealt with effectively. Advocating an extreme approach is usually not effective.

One more thing, in regards to your earlier comment that sometimes one must be told off if one is not tznius’dik, dealing with the symptom instead of the root cause:

The way i see it there are two ways to get someone to do what you want him/her to do. By Discipline or by Education.

By discipline, I mean, put someone in their place, force them to do what you want, put the kid in time-out, etc.

Education is when you actually teach the child right from wrong at a time when he/she is able to hear and not be on the defensive.

Discipline is a necessary tool, when for ex. a child is disruptive or out of control. But when I discipline, I am not really teaching my child anything. And I don’t want to be disciplining forever. I would rather educate. When you educate, you are imparting values that, when the child is independant, he will want to keep as his own.

This is chinuch.

To connect this to our discussion, Tznius is a mitzva that needs to be taught and instilled into our children, so that when they leave the “confining parameters” of home and school, they will not want to throw it off. But when we criticize an offender, we are merely disciplining, and not teaching. And that is the sort of discipline that if done in an insensitive way, may severly backfire.