Mezonos Maven wrote:
“starwolf, Once again you completely missed the boat. Sure, society by its imposition identifies some people as Chareidi. And as a matter of verbal convenience some of those people refer to themselves as such. But they are not a “stream of Judaism”. They are merely the folks who follow the traditions laid forth at Har Sinai.
I know this is a painful fact for those who don’t follow these traditions, and they thus deny this truth. But be that as it may, as painful for them as this fact is, it shall be spoken. “
You make the claim that only anti-State people are Torah Jews. Was that really your opinion?
Now, I assume that you mean the people who identify themselves as Hareidim. Again, this is self-identification.
So what makes them “Torah Jews” by your definition, as opposed to Modern Orthodox or Mizrachi?
What makes them (in your opinion) the true inheritors of the traditions of Har Sinai?
Is it: anti-Zionism?
their mode of dress?
their self-isolation from the rest of their people?
Their reliance on their Rabbinical authority for opinions on every issue?
Their refusal of secular education?
Refusal to educate women?
How anti-state do you need to be to be a “Torah Jew”? Do you have to go as far as A600KiloBear (following the shita of Rav Blau, for example) or can you also take money form the state even though you do not fully participate in its institutions (Belz would be a good example)?
I of course realize that all of the above do not apply to all those who consider themselves Chareidi. I just want to know what MM’s definition of those Torah Jews are. I also want to get an answer to the question posted above: in his opinion, can a Zionist be a Torah Jew? Is, for example, Rav Ovadia Yosef a Torah Jew?
A600KiloBear posted his opinion on the subject. While of course I do not agree with it, it was interesting to read.