BS”D
It is not me who needs to learn humility, and I am surprised that such an insulting post went through.
That is not an attack on Rav Kook; it is a fair analysis which is similar to that of Rav Avigdor Miller ZTL and other true gedolim. I made it clear that some of the clear kefiradige statements attributed to Rav Kook seem fabricated to me. What I do believe is that he described non-Zionists as people with whom he had a dispute regarding one mitzvah, whereas his dispute with the frei pioneers was centered around 612 mitzvos.
I am the one who will be ignoring you, as you stoop to personal insults.
As for MO vs Haredi:
Have MO or RZ ever produced:
A Rav Elyashiv shlita
A Rav Shteinmann shlita
A Rav Chaim Kanievsky shlita
A Rav Chaim Pinchos Scheinberg shlita
A Rav Moshe Feinstein ZTL
A Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky ZTL
A Rav Avigdor Miller ZTL
A Lubavitcher Rebbe ZYA
A Satmarer Rov ZYA
etc, etc
or going further back:
A Chazon Ish ZTL
A Chofetz Chaim ZTL
etc, etc, etc?
Rav Mordechai Eliahu shlit”a is in between RZ and charedi, but his heritage is very much the Sefardi yishuv hayoshon, the mekubalim of old, who predate the medine by at least two generations and often more.
Where do RZ (and frei) go when they are in trouble?
Ezra LaMarpeh
Rav Grossman
Yad Sarah
Ezer MiTzion
Chabad (Colel Chabad in EY and Chabad in Asia when they get sick or arrested)
Meir Ponim
ZAKA
etc, etc, etc
The MO and RZ world have always been looking to the Torah-true world for leadership and true chessed, and that is why some MO support Charedi institutions.
Which reminds me that you can hardly compare a girl who does one year of national service (more and more opt out of this anyway as it is just make work and they know it), or even a soldier who does three years of army duty, to someone who devotes his life to helping others 24/7, and often lives in deep debt as if he gets a salary it is a pittance and he is always putting himself on the line for others even if he has to borrow to do it. Even a professional soldier retires into industry; the tzaddikim who work for the organizations above retire only
If we lived according to Torah in EY, we would not need a state, nor would we have a fight with the Arabs. When I walk through the Arab shuk in Y-m, I see a proud people which has an identity. True, it is a klipa identity and a dog’s pride, but at least they are clearly Arab and not part of some nebulous world pop sameness McCulture. When I walk through Malha mall, I see cheap Britney and Whitney and Beyonce wannabes the way I see them in any suburban mall in the US.
And do not think for one minute that the frei see RZ as the good guys. If anything they see the good guys as all of those organizations I mentioned above plus Breslov whose spirituality they kind of admire as another alternative counterculture (I’ve seen frei kids reading Likutei Moharan in EY).
At the end of the day, they see RZ as a total wash, not truly frum but not of their self-defined enlightened world either (especially because of the animosity toward the Yos”h ‘settlers’ who include among their ranks far worse hooligans than any found in Mea Shearim, although I firmly believe both sets of hooligans are oisvorfen led by ShaBaK plants and stooges), and when they say Dros Kol Dos, they don’t differentiate.
Anyway, vus iz shoyn der kesher tzvish’n dos mit mamalushen? Darf mich shoin farmach’n der thread? Seems we’re just rehashing the same old points over and over again.