Reply To: Why oh why all the pain??

msseeker: You say where is the heter to spill Jewish blood. At the start of the State you are right, but now that it already exists, what do you want people to do, drop their weapons? Allow themselves to get killed? Of course they need to defend themselves!

If you call religious Zionism worse than secular Zionism you have severe problems. People who keep Torah are worse than those who dont? I think you need your head examined.

Mike hall whatever: Yes the killed kidoshim are Religious Zionism. I am talking about SECULAR Zionism. And, please do not give me the whole tinok shenishubu thingmagig. The government does abortion. It paves roads on cemeteries?! Would you be so passive if it was your grandpaps being chucked out of his grave?

And how can you say, oh, how can someone be killed for turning on a light on Shabbat? You sound like a kofer yourself.