Derech Hamelech: Can you quote a Torah source that learning secular studies accomplishes “Maale Hachol El Hakodesh” Btw, it actually accomplishes the opposite.
Itche Srulik: So you are equating MO philosophy with Emes and Chareidi philosophy with Shtus? Chareidi philosophy is the traditional Jewish philosophy dating back over a millenim.
Gavra: source for what? “Mitoch Shelo Lishma” means learning in order to become a recognized scholar, but still believing in the concept that the words of Torah learning literally connect oneself with Hashem. This kind of learning accomplishes in the long term ‘Lishma’-for the sake of learning. The learning I was discussing above was learning while lacking this fundemental belief; such learning is not classified under “Shelo Lishma” in the Gemara, and naturally will never accompish the “Lishma” which the Gemara refers to.