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tahini- i appreciate your understanding as not writing me off as a fanatic which seems to be a fad; especially to those who do nought but echo the words of geolim. if i can explain the reference, which, i assure you, was intentional, without anyone jumping to conclusions or automatically saying im downright nuts then i will. odds are that when it comes to these things people arent interested in listening. whatever misplaced love they have seems to over-ride logic and simple explanation. the argument is that if indeed this is the objective of the state, though no liberal-minded member here will ever admit that the actions of a 60 year old state from its inception till now would logically define its agenda, then in truth its worse then said referance. why? i preface that i do not in any way wish to minimalize what im referancing; rather, that the listener understands the gravity of what we’re dealing with. R”L, kedoshim beyond numbers to be apreciated were killed. that, nebach, was a dor that was lost, along with RYs and gedolim. after that, klal yisroel moved further into galus and started anew. B”H we’re witnessing today more learning, al kol ponim in quantity then ever. imagine though, if you will, what would klal yisroel look like if said medina was, in fact, succesful in promoting and carrying out its agenda. if youre convinced by 60 years of anti frumism as to what theyre interested in doing to the whole klal yisroel then that would mean the discontinuation of connection to real judasim and serving Hashem. in short, everything that gives klal yisroel a right to be the am hanivchar would CV”S be gone. goodbye. kaput. thats the pshat in the reference. im sure by now youve written me off as nuts, but i expected as much.