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Sorry folks, but you are wrong, allow me to explain (to the best of my ability). Btw, Yita, thanks for the link, it is indeed a very valuable site.

The Safer CC on hebrewbooks doesnt bring down the specific Rabeinu Yona that the Yiddish version is referencing (from what i’ve seen so far), but its explaining it somewhere along those lines.

There are 2 parts to LH:

1)Its causing Tzar or damage to someone(in whichever form). For example, Reuvens bakery makes the worse marble cake i’ve ever eaten, Shimon is too nervous to be a car service driver (financial damage), or, Rivkas husband Levi doesnt davan with Minyan (Personal Tzar – people in the neighborhood may not allow their kids to play in Levis house with Levis kids). This is the obvious that’s naturally understood by anyone.

2)One Yid speaking on another Yid in negative light, that’s it! What’s the problem you might ask? Hasham gets angry when someone bad mounts one of his kids. You guys can relate to it, i’ll draw an analogy. Say Cinderella is sitting with a group of people, there’s conversation back and forth when suddenly someone starts bad mounting someone. He/she has no idea who the person is, he/she is just ranting about a story he/she witnessed “I’m appalled at what i saw this person doing” the talker says in a “speechless” tone. The rest of the group then gets engaged in this -what appears to be- harmless discussion. Little do they know that Cinderellas stomach dropped and that her heart is beating really fast, because, the person being discussed happens to be her kid! Cinderella is hoping her face didn’t turn red and is HOPING for people to end the discussion and shift lanes. The same is true with Hasham, but in a much more magnified way because (as the Mussir Sfurim note) Hasham loves us more than we love our-self, and so when one speaks on another Yid (his beloved child), he asks in anger “Who is bad mouthing my child?!”

LH has NOTHING to do with the outcome, its the talking its self. Let me quote the Safer CC on hebrewbooks (with a summery translation). This is Page 116 on the web (78 of the Safer).

?? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????

???? ??? ???? ??????? ?? ?????, ?????? ???, ??-??-????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ????

????? ????. ????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ????

??????? ??? ??? ?????? ??????, ?? ?? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ??????

And know, even the LH will not lead to any bad to that person, for example, none of the listeners believed his words, etc, it is not outside the scope of LH. Furthermore, even the speaker evaluates and concludes that no bad can come out from his words (As some of you asking “what bad can POSSIBLY come out of this when no one knows the persons identity”)it is still prohibited to talk about the persons flaws. As the ??? ??? ???? explains (same age).

??? ????? ???? ?? ??????? ???

???? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???

?????, ?? ???? ?? ????? ???? ??? ????

????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ??????

????? ?????

It doesn’t have to come down to friction (for it to be a sin) only by ?????? because by ?????? the talker wants to initiate a fight between the two, wheres LH, the talker wants for the listeners to agree with his words.

And guys, please remember what all the Sfurim are saying. Hasham never hands down out a bad verdict on a Yid, even he/she deserves it. He will always let the person be his OWN judge by showing him/her a similar story and then be Dan that person based on how the person responds, based on his/her OWN judgment. As the Sfurim point out, everything we see is for a reason, nothing is by accident (I was coincidentally in the same line). That’s why Chazal are commending us to always be Dan everyone favorably, its for your OWN good! If you’re Dan everyone Lkaf Zchus then Hasham will ALWAYS have to be you Dan Lkaf Zchus, even we fail at times.