vochindik-
Thank you for the look-up info.
I read Rav Yaakov Shapiro’s posts, and now I see where most of your quotes come from.
I’ll b”n look up the Igros Moshe later.
And now the rebuttals:
The poskim on dina dmalchusa state it is limited to issues between a person and financial responsibilities (taxes) to the government.
Who are “the poskim”?
Previously you said it applied for “non Choshen Mishpat” issues, but now that I’ve shown that it’s a crime as well, are you changing what you said and going back to that claim that dina d’malchusa applies only to taxes?
Rav Yaakov [Schapiro] directly posted his position I mentioned on his hashkafa website; google without quotes “shapiro halacha music downloaded unpaid for”.
I did. He mostly says what you posted, but you left out a few key points:
1) He is machmir more than Rav Belsky on copying a music CD that you bought onto an electronic device. He says that if you would have bought a second copy for your ipod, you’re obligated to pay for a second copy and you may not rip the music.
Do you accept that chumra?
2) He also says that if you wouldn’t buy even a different CD due to your ripping of that one, you may not do so.
Do you accept that chumra?
3) His full quote on the “yored letoch umnosoh…” includes the comment that “it is unethical and should not be done”.
Why did you omit this part of his quote?
4) My rav indicated it is not a halachic issur of either gezeila or dina dmalchusa. It may or may not be a problem of hasagas gvul depending on the circumstances. And if the circumstances permit it, there is no other halachic prohibition.
Did your rov say all of the above or are the last sentence or two yours?
4) Rav Moshe is O.C. 4:40:19.
As I said, b”n I’ll look it up.
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As I said, I don’t know Rav Schapiro (this may just be an indicator of ignorance on my part). When you have a rov issuing a psak that’s at odds with Rav Moshe and (lbclc) Rav Belsky, unless he’s your rov I think you’re cherry-picking.
He says he’s not disagreeing with Rav Elyashiv, but he is invalidating a tnai that way posted with Rav Elyashiv’s haskoma.
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I’ll repeat a couple of things I said earlier:
1) This is an attempt to be naval b’rishus haTorah. I’ll concede that with your example of $5,000 software, a person can make a convincing case that they wouldn’t have purchased it anyway. However, with the standard $10 – $20 music CD, that’s an iffy claim – one which Rav Belsky says is baloney.
2) I’ve personally lost money because of financial halachos I wasn’t aware of. I’m not a talmid chochom by any means, and I’m not all comfortable in the position of knowledgeably defending one particular halocha, especially if the opposing party is more interested in winning an argument (evidenced by omitting parts of quotes and changing arguments) than in an honest discussion.