For a better understanding of this issue, please read
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Chapter 8, pages 163-173.
Short introduction: This issue has been contentious for over one thousand years, and there there is no clear cut halachah. For the Bavli quoters, remember there exists also the Yerushalmi and Midrashei halachah. You will be surprised at the large variety of minhagim practiced over the many centuries. Idach zil gmor.