Reply To: The Dov Lipman Response�Controversial?

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#955492
Just Emes
Member

As i mentioned above the moetzes gedolei torah of the agudah in 1937 by a majority ruling-said that creation of medina was ok if it has Torah borders and will be run religiously – i believe this assumes permission of ruling nation- which was England until they passed it off to UN and the UN voted in the majority in favor of israel -binding all nations to the decision- so its not yimridu b’emos- and if yo see rashi on yaalu bichoma(end of kesuvos) – he says yad chazaka- and many shittos learn that you can’t take israel by force but if go up peacefully ie with permission- then no oath is violated. Also, the argument that they did take it militarily because 24 hrs later arabs fought over it – has no relevance because the permission of the nations in the UN of which the arabs were members allowed it – then israel declared it with permission and then did not fight for it – but defended their land (given with permission) in a defensive battle which is also totally muttar and allowed. Also as i mentioned before even the Brisker Rav who disagreed – said that since moetzes voted for it- it will happen. By the way the argument that since there are casualties in EY- it proves that the oath was violated is not correct because we were persecuted and killed for years and years before that and only a few years before the state was made 6 million jews were murdered in cold blood and did not receive help until it was too late – so jews dying has nothing to do with medina but rather jewish people’s judgement in galus by Hashem. Also see Rav Dessler Michtav Meliyahu(bnei brak) who says one must recognize the hasgacha that post the destruction of the jews – the jews are thriving in ey. Also many jews are not attacked outright even in other nations because of fear that israeli teams of agents will come after them. also, although secular zionism is a wrong hashkafa on life – it doesnt mean that the creation of the state is wrong especially given the aguda’s position even though they were anti secular zionism. And since the state already exists we have every right to live and defend our lives there – because of vi’chai bahem and haba lihargicha haskem li’hargo