Reply To: The Dov Lipman Response�Controversial?

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#955537
HaKatan
Participant

Avi K, we discussed all this. From the top.

1. The oaths are halacha and are brought down by early poskim. And the same Rambam warned against violating them in Igeres Teiman.

2. The oaths are a protection for us in galus. Even your own Zionist Rabbis try to come up with reasons for why the oaths are not in effect any more; if they were only for 1,000 years, and this logically makes no sense given the above, then there would be no reason to come up with any other reason why Israel and Zionism don’t violate them, which of course, they fragrantly do.

3. The gentiles violating their oath is also irrelevant for the same reason. Our oaths are for our protection. It is stupid to give that up because the gentiles violated their oath.

4. The Ohr Sameach you are quoting is, in my humble understanding, based on the forgeries from Rabbi Kasher. Either way, as I wrote earlier, the Ohr Sameach there allowed for people to go up and not for political rule as that would violate the other oath of trying to “force” the geulah.

5. Rabbi Soloveichik was a Zionist, so he is not a raaya to anything.

6. You are mistakenly assuming it is “obvious” that Rav Kahaneman did not agree. A recent talmid wrote on these boards that this is done for political purposes and not, CH”V, as an endorsement of the idolatry of Zionism.

Rav Edelstein’s quote, too, does not endorse Zionism; while that obviously differs from the Satmar Rov, he, too, is not endorsing Zionism, only that since the State is, very unfortunately, a reality, that one who does not vote is poresh min haTzibur.

Again, there are no sources to justify the idolatry of Zionism.