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#955556
HaKatan
Participant

Avi K,

1. If the oaths were not halacha why, for starters, did the Or Sameach and the Avnei Nezer, both of whom the Zionists distort and misquote, bring them as such.

2. Who claimed “the oaths did not do a very good job of protecting us”? And why would that mean “the deal is off”? Which god told you that, Herzl?

3. I really would prefer to not discuss this, because I respect his Torah. One obvious difference is that the gedolim were speaking prior to the State’s establishment when the question of a State was a theoretical one. They were not “anti-Zionist”; they were pro-Torah. Another big difference is that there were major gedolim who held Rabbi JB Soloveichik was influenced by his secular studies. No such claim was made against the great sages like Rav Chaim and Rav Elchonon.

4. The Zionist forgeries of Rabbi Kasher were documented in MiKatowitz ad 5 B’Iyar.

5. The fact that he flew it still has no bearing on Zionism. No Terutzim are necessary to this non-kashya.

6. What I wrote came from a “Religious Zionist” site; I don’t recall the original source. As for Rabbi JB Soloveichik (again), he said lots of things that many gedolim disagreed with. He also said that traditional Orthodoxy would become a museum piece/relic. Yet, now, MO decries the non-MO “triumphalism”. So, even according to MO, he clearly was mistaken about that prediction. Regardless, it seems pretty obvious, though, at least in the Jewish faith, that there is nothing holy about a secular flag, much less one that represents the likes of Herzl and the others, not to mention the oaths issues. While on the topic, Rabbi JB Soloveichik also said he was unimpressed with Rabbi Kook’s scholarship. Still hold by either one 100%?