Home › Forums › Tefilla / Davening › ??????? ?? ???? ?????
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March 31, 2014 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #612472streekgeekParticipant
Why in the world is this something we ask for by Rosh Chodesh bentching? Since when is this a good thing that it goes up there in the ranks of tova and bracha and the rest of the good stuff?
March 31, 2014 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #1010239ubiquitinParticipanteleh mai…..
March 31, 2014 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #1010240frumnotyeshivishParticipantFirst Pshat: Eizehu ashir, hasameach bechelko; eizehu mechubad, hamechabeid es habriyos.
Second P’shat: Similar, but different twist. The right wealth, the right honor.
Third Pshat: while the never-ending pursuit of wealth and honor – at the expense of all else – is clearly a bad thing, wealth and honor per se are good things.
April 1, 2014 12:12 am at 12:12 am #1010241Sam2ParticipantMethinks the OP makes an assumption.
April 1, 2014 12:36 am at 12:36 am #1010242HaLeiViParticipantThis is the right way to desire honor. You pray for it once a month. If you run after it you lose it, but of course you need Kavod. A child needs Kavod and even an animal deserves a certain Kavod. Why shouldn’t you ask for it?
April 1, 2014 12:45 am at 12:45 am #1010243golferParticipantHaL, +1
April 1, 2014 1:00 am at 1:00 am #1010244LogicianParticipantSome say that’s why we repeat the request for yiras shamayim – after receiving osher v’chavod, its a whole new ballgame !
Chazal say if you run from kavod, it will run after you. As quoted in certain seforim, clear that its not an observation, but a promise. Same ‘question’ applies.
Think its pretty clear that these things are tools that can be used either way.
April 1, 2014 6:07 am at 6:07 am #1010245HaLeiViParticipantDavening for it is not running after it.
It is not an observation, nor merely a promise. It is by definition. The Maharal explains that Kavod is the perception about you from others. The more you try to manipulate that the more you are taking away from there being ‘others.’ This does not apply to Davenning for it.
Kavod is important. Why do you assume it isn’t? Sure, running after it is an embarrassment, and delving on it brings Gaava. The same goes for most important and necessary things. It really pays to understand this.
April 1, 2014 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #1010246streekgeekParticipantSome say that’s why we repeat the request for yiras shamayim – after receiving osher v’chavod, its a whole new ballgame !
My question is based on the assumption (as Sam2 coined it) that osher, and particularly kavod, is inherently a bad thing…Guess I’m now learning otherwise 🙂 Thanks Haleivi and Logician.
So now, what are the positive sides to these brachos? Besides for giving tzedaka of course.
April 1, 2014 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #1010247HaLeiViParticipantThe positive side of being wealthy and of being respected? They are positive things. It just so happens that in pursuit of them we trip all over ourselves. Being very wealthy does come along with its set off Nisyonos that are not fathomed by anyone else. The same goes for Kavod. But they are essentially blessings. Likewise, enjoying good food at the proper time and situation is a blessing, while dashing across the hall to switch flavors of ice-cream is gluttonous.
Real, deserved Kavod is recognition of your status. That is only a positive thing. Being kept in your proper and actual regard allows you to be yourself.
April 2, 2014 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #1010248oyyoyyoyParticipantdoes kavod = gaavah? the rambam doesnt say derech emtzaii about anivus/kovod
April 2, 2014 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #1010249streekgeekParticipantIt just always sounds to me like we’re asking for nisyonos…I mean it’s one thing if Hashem gives you oshe and kavod, but to actually verbalize it and ask for it. It just always bothered me.
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