כח דהתירה עדיף

They were afraid that it can be misused. The pros and cons must be weighed.

Dear Avira,

Your correct. What about yevomos 37a?

I didn’t even address the laughable suggestion that the yeshivos are…ok…with the Internet. Do you remember citfiield? Do you remember rav vosners psak that one who has unfiltered internet is pasul le’adus? The yeshivos have not wavered on their opposition to the Internet. The same rules that were laid out then apply now:

Best not to use it at all
2nd best is only at work
If not, only for work at home with a very good filter, not in a private room, and not letting kids near it under any circumstances
If necessary, shopping is allowed as a big bedieved
Recreational use was never permitted on a general basis; individuals may have heterim from their rov for extenuating circumstances.
Torah, etc – if one already has internet for a legitimate purpose, many are ok with using it for learning and shiurim. Many aren’t. That’s a big split nowadays.

I don’t know who told you that yeshivos are ok with Internet use. It’s as big of a lie as the MO people who say that the satmar rebbe wasn’t against the state of Israel (sic)

I would say the Rosh Yeshivos were not for or against internet, until the problem were brought to the surface.

Noda BiYhudah I, Even HaEzer 29
ועדיף לן כח דהיתרא להתיר העלובה הזאת אחרי שעל זה אנו מצווים ועומדים להמציא כל צד היתר שאפשר כדי להקל בעגונה

Toldot Yaakov Yosef, Shoftim
וכמו בחורבן ירושלים, שהיו נביאי אמת מוכיחין בשער לעשות טוב פן יחייבו לממ”ה, ונביאי שקר היו מקילין להם, ובישרו שלום וצדק, שלא יאונה להם כל און, ובוודאי כח דהתירא עדיף הי’ להם לשמוע, עד שגרמו בעו”ה לבית מחמדנו לחרוב ונפלה עטרת ראשינו, כמ”ש (איכה ב, יד) נביאיך חזו לך שוא ומדוחים ולא גלו על עוונך

Koach Tehetera Adif proves that you have to be very wary of bring Mattir something, and only if you are 100% sure of it can you do so. And so, it proves the opposite of how the קלים use it.

n0mesora, are you trying to trick people here? The Gemara is describing the shock of Rav Mesharshia at the leniency of Ravina. In his shock he exclaimed, “You allowed this? Hopefully you’ll allow Chelev, too!”

If you seriously think you can take this ‘either way’, I’ll have to re-read anything you quoted here previously.

Based on חדש אסור מן התורה the skepticism was always in place. Caution is good. Not to rush into a new thing is actually healthy, with precautionary steps in place.

Why is everyone so excited? The gemara can be read either way. That’s obvious from the context. I don’t care about the debate here about approach, because so many tong essays have been written on the topic that we are not going to change things based on a diyuk that is obviously inconclusive. It is of interest that you all feel threatened by this gemara. Because even how you read it, it’s still a kasha on you. And you don’t have a good teretz. So what that there is a kasha. A rayah it is not.

Dear Participant,

Internet was never banned in Lakewood. The idea was to try to prevent/slow it from being normalized. And even in your alternative portrayal, the OP still has a point. Twenty years ago, it was still a non-issue. Even though we now know that it was.

I once heard from Rav Yaakov Hillel shlit”a that what used to be called “koach d’hetera adif” has now become “koach d’hefkera adif.”

After discussing this comment with others who were present at the shiur, I think the pshat is as follows:
There are 3 categories:
כח דהיתירה I am confident in this leniency since I know there is no contradiction to it anywhere, and I can resolve anything which seems to be contradictory
חומרה- I don’t know if there is a contradiction elsewhere, and based on my lack of knowledge I have no choice but to be stringent
הפקרה- I am deciding to be lenient and I don’t know- nor do I really care- if there is a contradiction anywhere else. I’m not even aware of the potential issues, let alone have a way to resolve contradictions.

Today too many people mean this last way.

It is right to be conservative in using new things.

Moses Mendelsohn was very enthusiastic about new things, others – opposed. Is it intrinsically bad to read Chumash in High German? So, many people read ArtScroll now (ok, it may be High Yinglish), but at the time, it directly assisted assimilation.

Founder of Chabad opposed Napoleon and supported the Czar with spies, in part because of fear of modernity; others, including Chaim Volozhin – disagreed, even if they saw that Czar is likely to survive. Maybe a closer case, but still.

Still, sometimes one needs to act boldly in view of external changes. See Rabban Gamliel, writing of the Mishna, etc. Claiming that “power of meikel” is mis-understood by serious opponents is as credible as to claim that Chasam Sofer was talking about grain when he re-prohibited “chadash”.

At this point the yeshiva world uses the internet. The whole public outcry, is just to hide that fact.