October 1, 2014 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #613793
What is the #1 most important thing that a boy/girl needs to have for you to consider him/her for marriage? Or, what middah do you find most attractive in any person?October 1, 2014 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #1187480
A bas talmid chochom who is a good cook with middos tovos.October 1, 2014 11:48 pm at 11:48 pm #1187481
Definitely patience, or the ability to give in/let it goOctober 2, 2014 12:14 am at 12:14 am #1187482
There are a number of things most people would not marry anyone lacking, such as sanity and the ability to have children.
Do you mean only those things that are a necessity for you, but possibly not for other people?
(I’m not sure the right word with regard to middos is “attractive” – perhaps “admirable.”)
Eftach, I’m starting to wonder if you only start threads in an attempt to spark philosophical discussions.October 2, 2014 12:16 am at 12:16 am #1187483
the ability to give in/let it go
An interesting quality to name here, as having it
oneself obviates the need for others to…October 2, 2014 12:25 am at 12:25 am #1187484
moneyOctober 2, 2014 12:40 am at 12:40 am #1187485
A bochur goes to a girl’s house to meet her for the first time. It’s his first time going out, and he’s very nervous. The father sits him down, and puts him through the ringer. He grills him in hashkafah, halachah, the sugya he learned three months ago, how he would treat his wife, etc, with the boy made to feel very uncomfortable the whole time. Finally, the girl’s father asks him, “so, what kind of girl are you looking for?”.
Answers the boy, “a yesomah”.October 2, 2014 12:49 am at 12:49 am #1187486
randomex – lol ideally, both parties should have this middah 🙂October 2, 2014 12:50 am at 12:50 am #1187487
PBA – question: am I supposed to EVER take you seriously?? (no idea if this has already been discussed – probably 🙂 )October 2, 2014 12:56 am at 12:56 am #1187488👑RebYidd23Participant
Attraction is as important as admiration, perhaps more.October 2, 2014 1:02 am at 1:02 am #1187489
The ability to act respectfully to all people in all situations, even when sorely tempted into rudeness or losing one’s temper.October 2, 2014 1:11 am at 1:11 am #1187490seventhMember
#Good middos #easygoing #onethatyoucantrustOctober 2, 2014 2:06 am at 2:06 am #1187491
Randomex: The second part of my question elaborates upon the first. Therefore, I am not talking about the lack of something, but rather a positive attribute. I wouldn’t call being sane an attractive attribute. It’s an obvious prerequisite. I used the word “attractive” purposefully, because all positive middos are admirable, but each one draws a certain type of personality over others, either due to similarity, or a lack which they (consciously or otherwise) seek to fill.
Now regarding your little comment… I’ll be honest, you aren’t so wrong. I do like to spark philosophical discussions. If you want to know why I say my piece and then I go fly a kite(sometimes), its because a)I can’t be on my laptop all day (I don’t want a smartphone for that reason. The coffee in this room can become addictive.) and b) I’m not as smart as everyone here, and sometimes I loose track of the arguments in the thread- it takes too much brainpower. But I am curious and interested in knowing about whichever thread I start, and I don’t do it just to waste time and create empty threads.
Popa- I was wondering if you’d ever respond to anything I say. The impression I always got from reading what you say is that you’re the Big Popa of this place, and your words are usually short n sharp. But I have to say I’m really unimpressed now. Or were YOU trying to ‘spark a philosophical discussion’ here?
Anyways, Popa’s usually the one to go to for money, so you shouldn’t have a prob with that. 🙂October 2, 2014 6:18 am at 6:18 am #1187492
eb – congrats on starting a post that popa deemed worthy of answering 😀 that’s Big Stuff! It actually is an interesting and important question (though I’m not in shidduchim yet, THANK G-D!!!)October 2, 2014 11:40 am at 11:40 am #1187493
Haven’t read everything yet, but it looks like a job for… me. 🙂
PBA - question: am I supposed to EVER take you seriously?? (no idea if this has already been discussed - probably :) )
Popa- I was wondering if you’d ever respond to anything I say. The impression I always got from reading what you say is that you’re the Big Popa of this place, and your words are usually short n sharp. But I have to say I’m really unimpressed now. `
Here’s the deal: Popa (pronounced puh-puh), full name popa_bar_abba (a play on Abba bar Popa, one of Rav Popa’s sons, who are mentioned at a siyum) is a longtime member of the Coffee Room who fills the role of court jester/troll*-in-residence and is favored by (at least some of) the mods.
(See here, section C.)
You should not take anything he says
seriously unless it is either 1) about halacha or
2) believable and sensible in its context.
Otherwise, it is only a joke.
Popa’s profile is located here:
Clicking on his name will give you a little bit of information as well.
*”Troll” is a term used for someone on the Internet who says or does things not because they mean them sincerely, but only in order to get a reaction from people.
#Good middos #easygoing #onethatyoucantrust
Gotta love these young’uns who either naturally speak in hashtags and/or assume any site that they’re on uses them. Dern kids!
More seriously, “seventh” has been registered since
December 27, 2012 (1 year)but only became active 3 weeks ago.
As the kids say, whatever. (Anyone who’s lurked for a year would
know not to use hashtags, or at least one hopes they would.)October 2, 2014 12:52 pm at 12:52 pm #1187494ED IT ORParticipant
Middos & Money, everything else can be improved.October 2, 2014 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm #1187495
crazybrit – what, coz you can’t improve your middos?October 2, 2014 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm #1187496
crazybrit – what, coz you can’t improve your middos?October 2, 2014 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm #1187497
Disagree. Both middos and money can be improved (although of course you should never marry someone expecting them to change in any way at all). Other considerations such as family background will never change. I didn’t consider that a major factor at all when I was dating, but some do, and it’s worth noting that whatever the circumstances are, it’s a done deal.October 2, 2014 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #1187498
cozimjewish- Thanks! 🙂
Randomex- I may not be the smartest around here, but not EVERYTHING needs to be simplified! I do chap where Popa got his name from, but Popa is Poppa (Big Daddy) in any case. And I know he’s trolling (though thanks for explaining what that means). In that case he expected my response and u don’t ignore Poppa. Not derech eretz. 😉October 2, 2014 1:53 pm at 1:53 pm #1187499
Money can’t be improved?October 2, 2014 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #1187500ChizukGedarimParticipant
The number one thing you must have is attraction.
Then ???? ????, middos, etc. the decision is yours.October 3, 2014 4:16 am at 4:16 am #1187501oomisParticipant
Well, it always helps if they are breathing. Oh you were serious??? Then good-natured and emesdig. (Middos tovos, thoughtfulness, sensitivity, etc. all fall under this umbrella).October 3, 2014 10:51 am at 10:51 am #1187502
And I know he's trolling (though thanks for explaining what that means). In that case he expected my response and u don't ignore Poppa.
Without knowledge of the meaning of a term, knowing that someone is doing it is meaningless as well.
And a well-known rule of the Internet is “Do not feed the trolls,”
meaning ignore them (often abbreviated as DNFTT).
That, of course, is why I’m ignoring ChizukGedarim’s post.
(Also, please let go of this Popa=Big Papa thing.)October 3, 2014 11:46 am at 11:46 am #1187503
Compatibility… Not necessarily attraction. Menchlichkeit. Good midos. You can become attracted after marriage believe it or not!October 3, 2014 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #1187504
“Without knowledge of the meaning of a term, knowing that someone is doing it is meaningless as well.”
I knew the meaning of the term without knowing the actual word.
But what’s wrong with feeding the trolls if they’re hungry?:) Oh I get it. You like the real thing.October 3, 2014 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #1187505
Sure, you can become attracted after marriage. But you might not. That’s a big gamble and could lead to a lot of hurt feelings.October 3, 2014 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #1187506
Physical attraction surely should not be the first qualification. Chazal gives us good advice in what to consider and that isn’t among their top advice. Middos is among the top ranking considerations. Putting attraction before middos is a recipe for disaster. The chasidim don’t focus a tremendous amount on attraction, they often have a one-tome besho and are engaged, and there marriages work out quite fine, some might even strongly argue better than average among the frum communities.October 5, 2014 3:09 am at 3:09 am #1187507thechoiceismineMember
A yerei shamayim would definitely top my list. Someone who is looking to grow spiritually. An authentic, genuine person.
Like jfem says don’t marry expecting your spouse to change, but you must definitely be open to change and willing to accomodate.October 5, 2014 4:56 am at 4:56 am #1187508
How do you quantify a successful marriage, though? Low divorce rates aren’t worth much, because plenty of unhappy couples stay married for various reasons.October 5, 2014 6:23 am at 6:23 am #1187509
I think divorce rates in fact are a good indicator of a communities rate of successful marriages. Another good indication is the domestic violence conviction rate reflected in the local court records or police blotter.October 5, 2014 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm #1187510
It’s a very good question and hard to quantify. But lack of domestic violence does not indicate a happy marriage! On the other had attraction and infatuation before marriage aren’t indicative of compatibility in marriage either.October 5, 2014 12:51 pm at 12:51 pm #1187511
If someone is pleasant and a mentch and you have shared goals for life you can grow to love each other.October 5, 2014 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #1187512
I think divorce rates in fact are a good indicator of a communities rate of successful marriages. Another good indication is the domestic violence conviction rate reflected in the local court records or police blotter.
Both of those things have many other factors also involved. Probably you can say a marriage that ended in divorce was unsuccessful, but you can’t really get any more data than that out of it.
And probably we can imagine domestic abuse is not compatible with a successful marriage. But if you think it is a natural corollary of an unhappy marriage, that is very concerning.October 5, 2014 1:37 pm at 1:37 pm #1187513
A happy marriage is where you eat the last piece of cake because you know she’d want you to have it.October 5, 2014 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #1187514TheGoqParticipant
hilarious DY as always.October 5, 2014 1:46 pm at 1:46 pm #1187515
That reminds of the yekke and the non-yekke who were at shalishudis and there were two pieces of cake left, and the non-yekke takes the bigger one. Says the yekke, “you know, if I had taken first, I would have left you the larger piece.”
“So what’s the problem?”, responds the non-yekke, “you got the one you wanted!”October 5, 2014 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #1187516
LOL!! that’s hilarious dy! I saw goq’s post and i was wondering what he was talking about! 🙂October 5, 2014 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #1187517
popa: Let me rework that: Domestic violence rates (and divorce rates to a slightly lesser extent) can provide a fairly good *comparative* guide to which communities have better successful marriage rates.October 5, 2014 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #1187518
popa: Let me rework that: Domestic violence rates (and divorce rates to a slightly lesser extent) can provide a fairly good *comparative* guide to which communities have better successful marriage rates.
Two communities with equal marriage success could have wildly variable rates of divorce depending on how much the society looks down on divorce, and could have wildly different rates of domestic violence depending on how violent the cultures are.
It’s like if you’d try to prove that catholics have happier marriages because they have less divorce. They aren’t even allowed to divorce. (You weren’t actually talking about catholics, were you?)October 5, 2014 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #1187519
There are plenty of communities in which divorce is considered shameful, so many couples are living together in failed marriages, but won’t take the step of actually separating and/or divorcing– leading to artificially low divorce rates.October 5, 2014 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #1187520
Let’s put divorce aside. If someone comes from a more “violent culture”, thus resulting in more domestic violence than other communities, that in itself indicates less happier marriages. So domestic violence rates would be a good indicator even if you’re dismissive of divorce rates.October 5, 2014 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #1187521seventhMember
Randomex – I would just like to advise you very politley that it is not your buisness whether someone decides to post using hashtag’s etc as far as I know its not against the coffee room rules.October 5, 2014 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #1187522thethinkingjewParticipant
sincereness in yiddishkeitOctober 5, 2014 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #1187523
seventh, I’m pretty sure Randomex was half teasing and half noting that hashtags don’t fit with the general “style” of this forum. You can use them, of course, but no one else does, so it just looks a little weird. No big deal, though.October 5, 2014 10:01 pm at 10:01 pm #1187524
Let’s put divorce aside. If someone comes from a more “violent culture”, thus resulting in more domestic violence than other communities, that in itself indicates less happier marriages. So domestic violence rates would be a good indicator even if you’re dismissive of divorce rates.
It would not at all, joe. Because suppose two communities have the same marriage happiness rate (60% very happy, 20% moderately happy, 10% neutral, and 10% horrible), you might find in one community there is no domestic violence and in the other there is 10% domestic violence. But it shows nothing about the happiness of their marriage.October 6, 2014 1:56 am at 1:56 am #1187525
I saw goq's post and i was wondering what he was talking about!
Actually, The Goq was commenting on the joke about the bochur.
The cake joke came later.October 28, 2014 12:24 am at 12:24 am #1187526
I just realized that the “-1” years glitch could mean that my comment (just above this one) was wrong, and The Goq’s post was actually about the cake joke. This can no longer be determined, though, because we’re far enough away that the time-stamps are the same.
(I wonder if the mods can put an exact time to a post?
The information must be there for there to be even a relative time-stamp…)
(PAA – No points for figuring out why I was here at all.)October 28, 2014 1:19 am at 1:19 am #1187527Miriam377Participant
Kovea Itim, NO SMOKINGOctober 28, 2014 2:35 am at 2:35 am #1187528
I’m kovea itim for no smoking, but I’m married already.
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