January 2, 2013 11:32 pm at 11:32 pm #607677ChortkovParticipant
Does anybody have a source for this myth that humans can only live until 120 years? We have all been fed this since school, but is it actually brought down anywhere?
The ??? ???? at the end of ???? ?????? seems to say that it not true. .
I tried searching hebrewbooks.org, but i couldn’t find anything.January 2, 2013 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #917570hershiMember
Moshe Rabbeinu.January 3, 2013 12:06 am at 12:06 am #917571Sam2Participant
Yekke: It’s Pashtus in the Passuk.January 3, 2013 12:07 am at 12:07 am #917572
It is obviously not true.
Jeanne Calment lived a very documented life and lived to the age of 122, passing away in 1997.
What? Non-Jewish record keeping is not good enough for you?
How about Yehoyada, a Kohen in the time of the Bayis Sheini who lived to 130?
Either way, it’s clear that there is no absolute 120-year limit in the post-Moshe Rabbeinu era.
The WolfJanuary 3, 2013 12:09 am at 12:09 am #917573
Yekke: It’s Pashtus in the Passuk.
No it’s not. The passuk could also be interpreted to mean that mankind had only 120 years left before the flood.
The WolfJanuary 3, 2013 2:20 am at 2:20 am #917574147Participant
YWN just this past week carried story of a lady who passed away @124 years with 10 children who all outlived her.January 4, 2013 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #917575zahavasdadParticipant
Nobody has lived to 124 with absolute proof, Only Jeanne Calumet is there absolute proof that she lived to 122January 4, 2013 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #917576YW Moderator-42Moderator
How about Mesushelach? Or for that matter – Eliyahu Hanavi and Serach.
Also, I think it is brought down that Chira who helped Shlomo build the Beis hamikdash was the same Chira who was a friend of Shlomo’s ancestor Yehuda.
The passuk in Tehillim says 70-80 years. The mishna is Pirkei Avos lists 90 as already very old.
People have lived longer than 120 though most “normal, healthy” people nowadays don’t make it to 100.
I’m not sure where the idea that 120 is the ideal comes from but it seems to be the mesora. I assume it has something to do with Moshe Rabeinu. Either way, a bracha even from a hedyot is not to be taken lightly so when you hear somebody say “ad meah v’esrim” you should answer Amen and have kavana that the bracha should be chal. Also, when giving this bracha to someone you should have in mind that they should not only live to 120, but also have the strength that Moshe Rabbeinu had.January 4, 2013 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #917577frummy in the tummyParticipant
“YWN just this past week carried story of a lady who passed away @124 years with 10 children who all outlived her.”
I actually find the latter part of that statement much less likely than the former.January 4, 2013 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #917578zahavasdadParticipant
We actually dont know how long Methusaleh lived, The Chumash says 969 years, but whats a year? There is no indication that a year for Methuselah is 365 Days 5 Hours and 49 Mins. Which is what it is today.January 4, 2013 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #917579LeiderLeider…Participant
Interesting to note that the lifespan of a healthy red blood cell is 120 days.January 6, 2013 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #917580TheBearIsBackMember
Sholam Weiss will be released from his present Federal accommodations on 23 November 2754 (16th of Kislev, 6515). He was about 50 when he was provided with these accommodations, and I guess he has lived in them for about 10 years. I guess he can expect to live past age 800 especially because dina demalchusa dina and the same Federal government we can rely on for supervision of milk is the government that gave him a place to live for over 800 years (845 years was the original allotment.)
When the Bear is back…Peerim is not far behind!April 27, 2017 8:23 am at 8:23 am #1263835
It’s interesting to note that any recorded cases of someone living past 120 are all female as far as I know.
It seems that even if there is any truth to the “120 years myth”, it only applies to men.
That may explain why some people say שתחי for women instead of עמו”ש
I still don’t get why we say “until 120” for anyone though. As far as I know, it doesn’t say anywhere that it’s impossible to live past 120 (even if it hasn’t happened since Moshe Rabeinu), so why put a limit on someone’s lifespan?April 27, 2017 8:52 am at 8:52 am #1263844
Being that there’s only one or two such allegedly recorded cases, a worldwide sample size of two is highly insufficient to make that comment regarding gender and 120+.April 27, 2017 9:01 am at 9:01 am #1263857
But I still don’t see why we should assume that men can’t live past 120 either just because it hasn’t happened yet.April 27, 2017 9:02 am at 9:02 am #1263855
The point is that people seem to think that it’s impossible to live past 120. And there have not been ANY men (as far as I know) who are recorded to have lived past 120, whereas there are women. Even if there was only one such woman, the point still holds true – that we see that a woman can live past 120, and we don’t know that a man can.
And if this is all based on Moshe Rabeinu, it makes sense, since he was a man, and since women do live longer than men on average.April 27, 2017 9:02 am at 9:02 am #1263859
Also, Serach lived longer than 120 and she was after Moshe Rabeinu. I don’t know if there have been any men after Moshe Rabeinu who lived past 120 – all the examples from above posts were before Moshe Rabeinu. Besides Eliyahu HaNavi who never died so he can’t be counted.
Is Serach one of the people who never died or did she just live a long time? I think she lived a long time, but I can’t remember.April 27, 2017 10:31 am at 10:31 am #1264010iacisrmmaParticipant
So much misinformation has been written above.
1. Mesushelech was born prior to the gezeirah mentioned in the passuk ans was probably well passed 120 years old at the time of the “nefillim”.
2. Almost all the direct descendants of Noach that make up the 10 generations between him and Avrahom lived more than 120 years.
3. The avos lived >120 years.
4. Yosef was the first of the shevatim to die and he was 110 years old. Levi lived the longest to 137 years. Levi was approximately 114 when Yosef died so all of the other shevatim were around 120.
5. LU wrote: “Also, Serach lived longer than 120 and she was after Moshe Rabeinu.” I take that as “she lived longer than 120 and she died after Moshe Rabeinu”.April 27, 2017 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #1264329
Why does everyone seem to have a problem with the exceptions who live past 120, but not with the vast majority who don’t reach 120? Isn’t that equally problematic according to the 120 yr “myth”.
IMHO 120 is used to represent a complete life, since Moshe Rabbenu came as close to being perfect as a mortal can, and died not from illness or weakness but because his tafkid was complete, hence the bracha of living as long as Moshe R’.April 27, 2017 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #1264340ChaverParticipant
WinnieThePooh that really is a beautiful pshat! May you live to 120April 27, 2017 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #1264442
You mean may she live too 122.April 27, 2017 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #1264463
Re #5: That is what I meant.April 27, 2017 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #1264466
May she live longer than 122! שתחי,April 27, 2017 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #1264464
“Why does everyone seem to have a problem with the exceptions who live past 120, but not with the vast majority who don’t reach 120? Isn’t that equally problematic according to the 120 yr “myth”.”
No; the idea of “until 120” is that no one can live past 120 and not that everyone HAS to live until 120. 70 is considered the “normal” or “average” (not sure which word is more accurate) lifespan.April 27, 2017 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #1264468
but thanks for clarifying. I hadn’t phrased that so accurately.April 27, 2017 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #1264581
130?April 27, 2017 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #1264677
Why not more? Anyhow, Mashiach’s on his way, and won’t we live much longer then? So what’s with the 120 year business?? I think it’s a klala, not a bracha.April 27, 2017 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #1264869
עד מאה וחמישים שנהApril 27, 2017 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #1265008MammeleParticipant
I have a “Techina” in my Machzorim that says something about being able to light candles etc. till 100 years (it’s in Yiddish). When I catch myself saying it I quickly correct it to 120, although lately I’ve been tempted to add more years… Now that’s something I consider a klallah. But basically most of us are in denial about our mortality.
And to find The Bear is Back posting on this – 120 years – thread is also a serious wake up call, unless I’m confusing posters.April 27, 2017 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #1265026☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
For anyone who doesn’t know:April 28, 2017 8:42 am at 8:42 am #1265076ubiquitinParticipant
I don’t think anybody actually believes living longer than 120 is impossible. Clearl;y there are a few people in modern history that lived longer than 120. As well as people in Tanach. Yishai was after Moshe Rabbeinu and the Medrash says lived 400 years (though this may very well be a typo/misunderstood abbreviation as some have pointed out).
Interestingly many scientists believe we are not designed to live longer than 120 (generally speaking) Aging is a real phenomena and the body simply breaks down organs stop functioning properly etc etc. Also worth noting is Longevity hasn’t increased much in the past century. Life expectancy has increased, but this is primarily due to increased survival in infancy which has a large impact on average life expectancy
(Eg if you have a society with 10 people 5 live to 90 and 5 die at age 2 R”L The average life expectancy for that group is 46. IF the 5 survive to say 50. The average life expectancy of the group is 70. But in both cases the longevity of hasn’t changed much)April 28, 2017 8:43 am at 8:43 am #1265075ubiquitinParticipant
I dont know about that. The fact that The Torah uses “Shana” to describe the length of time he lived (x969) is certainly an indication that it means year as it does throughout Tanach.
I grant that it is possible that length of a year was different at that point. (though there is no indication that this is so). So if it makes you feel better. nu nu. But to say there is no indication that “shana” means what it always means is a stretchApril 28, 2017 8:46 am at 8:46 am #1265074
Search was born before Moshe Rabbeinu.
(Not that it matters, because, as I pointed out years ago, upthread, the whole idea that we can’t live past 120 is bunk anyway.)
The WolfApril 28, 2017 10:11 am at 10:11 am #1265125
Thanks for the bracha. But it is only a bracha if all my friends and loved ones are also long-lived. Imagine how sad for the 100+ers who outlive siblings, and maybe even children.April 28, 2017 10:48 am at 10:48 am #1265157
So you’d rather die earlier if your friends and loved ones died younger?!?April 29, 2017 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #1265413
Three Possibilites I can think of:
1. Techiyas hamaisim started.
2. Someone just joined and (without realizing it) signed up using a User Name that has been used before, and for some reason the system accidentally allowed that to happen.
3. There was a mistake in the article linked.
4. You misread the date of his post.April 29, 2017 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #1265482
Whoops! Misunderstood WTP’s post.
Yeah, that is a wake-up-call.April 30, 2017 1:33 am at 1:33 am #1265612
I think you meant Mammele’s post.April 30, 2017 1:34 am at 1:34 am #1265611
ever hear of Choni Hamaagal? He certainly felt so, and spoke from experience.
I meant that they should include everyone I know in the Bracha.April 30, 2017 9:47 am at 9:47 am #1265687
WTP & Mammele – I’m so sorry – I keep mixing you guys up!April 30, 2017 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #1266443147Participant
Well Shakespeare is the Tzadik, as he died on his 52nd birthday, being born April 23, 1564, and being Niftar on April 23, 1616
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