May 25, 2020 12:22 pm at 12:22 pm #1864231
How can anybody vote Republican or Dem after they flushed trillions of dollars down the toilet which will cause inflation?
No UBI but we might be able to get Social Security when we turn 65. Does this make sense?May 25, 2020 1:23 pm at 1:23 pm #1864487Amil ZolaParticipant
It’s only socialism when the little guy benefits, never when corporations get bailed out. Citizens are expected to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, no so much for corporations. If capitalism is so successful why is it necessary for the govt to bail out airlines, cruise lines, manufacturing etc every few years, not just in the time of Covid.May 25, 2020 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1864527
However they managed to vote for the last eighty years.May 25, 2020 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1864528
The small guys got the $1200 + $500/child. As well as over $1,000/week in unemployment, with the additional $600.
And small businesses got the forgivable loans/grants.May 25, 2020 2:54 pm at 2:54 pm #1864577Amil ZolaParticipant
Joseph, most of those that got the loans and grants were big business. The few that went to mainstreet had so many strings attached it wasn’t worth the effort. If you cannot afford to pay back rent on a small business what’s the use of putting 75% of the loan/grant proceeds to payroll? People aren’t working, they don’t have discretionary money to spend in many specialty stores. A storefull of employees without customers isn’t gonna survive. No small businesses were consulted to find out what small business needed and the best way to financially support them. Try again. It’s a pity there was no oversight on who got the money, but that’s how this administration works.May 25, 2020 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm #1864581
Amil, that isn’t factually accurate. From the second Congressional bill re-filling the coffers to fund money to businesses, the vast majority went to small businesses. Large businesses, in fact, were excluded.
Many large businesses were even forced to pay back the money they got from the first Congressional bill.May 25, 2020 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #1864618
That is less factual. Look into where the money is actually going. The government is not.May 25, 2020 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #1864619jdf007Participant
The Kennedy Center for the performing arts deserve the money more than we do. I should do the math again before I post, but in 4 or 5 stimulus bills, last time I counted, 6 trillion. Divide that by the number of people in the US, and how much should you have gotten instead of 1,200? Enough money that the economy could’ve been kept afloat just on the usual consumer spending.
So, why do we stimulate the middle man instead?
Also, check the records. I didn’t see Trump ever mention reopening the way he does now until the first time Pelosi refused to pass a stimulus. It was at that moment we all know there was not going to be an economic pause, and no American Royalty was going to give us multiple checks as promised to help us ride out the virus. It took China 2 months to eliminate the invisible enemy, “we” couldn’t bother in the first weeks. I follow a conservative/libertarian whatever you want to call it, but an emergency is an emergency and a pause with temporary UBI would’ve saved a lot of lives and still counting.May 25, 2020 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #1864629
Every mega corporation has subsidiaries that can apply for loansMay 25, 2020 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #1864672akupermaParticipant
No corporation is getting anything close to a trillion. In most cases there are loans, secured by the assets of the company (if they don’t repay, the government seizes the assets). Private citizens are receiving grants, not loans.
One should note that private persons derive their livelihood thanks to corporations and other forms of private business. From the tone of the post it appears the poster is someone depressed over their economic lot in life. I suggest they stop whining and get a job for a corporation so they too can be rich, since that will probably make the person happy.May 25, 2020 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #1864680
I didn’t say single corporations got trillions. The stimulus package was trillions and went to corporations.May 25, 2020 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #1864681
I work for a big business and I still am against the stimulus package. You believe in corporate socialism.May 25, 2020 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #1864686
If you don’t believe in corporate socialism, you should also not support personal socialism.May 25, 2020 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #1864696
The opposite is sensible. I support the idea of a just society. There is no need for society to support the corporation. [I assume a corporation to be a legal fiction.]May 25, 2020 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #1864712
n0m: If a corporation is a legal fiction, then government support of corporations is in fact support of people/citizens (as akuperma pointed out above), as the benefits accrued by corporations are received by the people who the corporation employ (that’s you and me) and people who are shareholders (that’s what you own in your 401k.)May 26, 2020 10:28 am at 10:28 am #1864839☕️coffee addictParticipant
“If capitalism is so successful why is it necessary for the govt to bail out airlines, cruise lines, manufacturing etc every few years, not just in the time of Covid.“
Are you advocating for complete socialism?May 26, 2020 10:39 am at 10:39 am #1864844SchnitzelBigotParticipant
Mr addict: sorry, but crony capitalism IS a form of socialism. You are advocating for socialism.May 26, 2020 10:40 am at 10:40 am #1864843SchnitzelBigotParticipant
Corporations are people too. And propping up small businesses like the Republican SBA is crony capitalism. Big business is ultimately better for the consumer and should be supported first.May 26, 2020 1:06 pm at 1:06 pm #1864853GadolhadorahParticipant
In the words of the a great Anmerican, whatever is good for the Trumpkopf’s chavrusah will ultimately be good for the nation. Great Righ Wing talmeidiei chachamim and mainstream Supply Side tzadikim bring down the importance of first making sure the uber-wealthy are taken care of first and then some of the crumbs will trickle down to the poishete citizens of our society.May 26, 2020 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #1864868reform rabbiParticipant
Capitalism means that those with capital control the economy.
Since they control everything and they are the masters, it is only appropriate to give them money to stimulate the economy. So that they can pay the workers to work.
The working class in capitalism is like the slave class of old. They control nothing. So giving them money doesnt pay for for work, but for consumption.
Capitalism says: we need the workers to keep working! We must find ways to keep the system going, or the workers may rebel!May 26, 2020 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #1864884
Almost all Americans want a free market. The issue is oversight. Congress has not been up to the task this century.Independent groups are the main watchdog of today’s market. Capitalism guarding capitalism does not work.May 26, 2020 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #1864891
The small business needs the financial help now. Or there will be much less consumers. Economies today are driven by debt. It will not last forever.May 26, 2020 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #1864948🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
“and then some of the crumbs will trickle down to the poishete citizens of our society.”
Not sure where you are coming from with this. Due to the things he put in place manybof us are on paid leave, or received full/close to full/excessbof full salaries on unemployment AND were handed $1200 (or more for those married with little kids).
Those trickling crumbs have allowed me to sleep at night.
Sorry for saying something positive, take an aspirin and it won’t hurt too much.May 26, 2020 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #1864966
US hasn’t been a truly capitalist country since before the industrial revolution. We live in a society that’s dictated by lobbyists.
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