13 years in a cave

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  • #2086920
    The Real Truth
    Participant

    what does it mean for us that reb shimon was in a cave for 13 years.
    could we even imagine it in some form?

    #2086986
    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    It means he was in a cave for 13 years.

    #2086993
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    We have some regular CR participants that appear to have been in a cave for most of the decade since I started posting. Doesn’t seem to have adversely affected their perspective.

    #2087014
    ujm
    Participant

    Dr. Norman Lamm called Bnei Torah “cave-men”.

    #2087018
    yungermanS
    Participant

    It means he was almost completely removed from all physical pleasures and from this temporary physical world. He only came out of the cave daily to get a small amount of food fron a tree growing right outside the cave and went directly back inside to continue learning Torah with his son Rav Eliezer and be completely attached to Hashem and learning Torah all the time.

    During his stay in the cave he put together the Zohar of Kabbala which we still have today boruch Hashem but is only safe for certain tzaddikim on a very high level to learn.

    May we all start working on ourselves on our dveikus/attachment to Hashem full time which is a direct mitzvah straight from the Torah “u’lidovka boi”

    #2087027
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Ujm, he did, and rav gifter said that the rambam says that when you’re in a spiritually impure society, the only recourse is to go to the caves – so he’s praising us as talmidei horambam!

    #2087056
    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Wasn’t his son R Elazar?

    #2087058
    akuperma
    Participant

    There is a “story” that in the immediate post-war period, the Satmar Rebbe (the original) and the Hazon Ish were discussing the situation in Eretz Yisrael (deliberately messed up the Brits, threatened by the Arabs, and infested with rabid socialists). They agreed about the need to flee to caves in the midbar. The Hazon Ish referred to the yeshivos in Eretz Yisrael as caves in the midbar. The Satmarer moved to Brooklyn (which suggests that Yidden who have fled “out of town” are even stricter that the Rebbe. According to our sources, R. Shimon Bar Yochai fled to an actual cave in the midbar (suggesting he was some sort of fanatic, as he had the option of sitting in a yeshiva or fleeing out of town).

    #2087067
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Plenty of people live in caves. What’s the big deal?

    #2087064
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Once he left from the cave, he was sent back as he did not understand people’s behavior, not learning Torah all the time. He wanted to burn up everything and was told, don’t destroy my world.

    #2087159
    ujm
    Participant

    akuperma: The Rebbe created Kiryas Yoel to be away from town.

    #2087176
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    “The Rebbe created Kiryas Yoel to be away from town…”

    No one claims that living in KJ is like living in a cave nor was it an effort to recreate an iconic โ€œAmerican Shtetl” in the style of the Alte Heim. There was a really fascinating study of the evolution of KJ published several years ago by Stolzenberg (a USC law professor) and Myers (a UCLA professor of Jewish history). Their hypothesis is that KJ was really NOT an effort to recreate a community whose participants descend into a cave and revert to life in the Alte Heim. Rather, they argue, it was a deliberate adoptation of a mythic past from the Alte Heim built on uniquely American features — the power of religious freedom, private property, and state welfare, all in the context of the Aron versus Zalman commercial litigation. Its an interesting read, even if you come away in strong disagreement with the authors.

    #2087182
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Rebbe said on ‘ืื•ืœื™ ื™ืฉ ื—ืžืฉื™ื ืฆื“ื™ืงื™ื ‘ื‘ืชื•ืš ื”ืขื™ืจ, maybe fifty tzadikim exist in the town. I want the tzadikim two stay in the town and shrei gevalt, protest and don’t leave.

    #2087214
    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    In many respects, Satmar succeeded beautifully in creating a Shtetl, albeit with American flavor. I don’t agree with everything they do but they were Paru vayishretzu vayirbu bimod meod.

    #2087370

    Akuperma the way I read this interaction, Chazon Ish was explaining his community building approach, referring to the rambam’s suggestion to move to the midbar if there’s no decent town to live in. There was nothing about caves, you are taking it too far.

    #2087371

    Those who admire Rashbi and aspire to emulate him in avoiding derech eretz, should recall whether they were able to stay in quarantine for two weeks eating just carob

    #2088206
    besalel
    Participant
    #2088287

    In our days, while Rashbi were quarantining in his cave, would be probably giving divrei Torah over zoom to the Meron hadlakah. Of course, he would be using Tor (sic!) to hide his location from Roman commissars.

    #2088471
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    I understand that there is only one fire this year.

    True on not, the Boyaner lit.

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