$15 an Hour Minimum Wage

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  • #1566675

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @dovidbt
    I have been able to operate a number of businesses during my lifetime. I sold the food businesses in 1978 and the sewing factory in 1984. Since then I have only run the law firm and associated trust administration business; PLUS real estate investment business. Mrs. CTL is a builder/designer and licensed realtor. Late MIL was a RE Broker and licensed property manager for 50 years, so it was easy to run the property/real estate investment business from adjoining offices in the same building.
    My father Z”L always had multiple businesses. He taught me if you have 5 businesses and one goes bad you can live well from the other 4, but if you have one business that goes bad it can be a catastrophe.

    Even now, in my mid 60s I am working towards another doctorate and have a new business venture that will incorporate law. I’ll retire from active legal practice when I launch this venture in a couple of years. My children and their spouses will run the CTL practice on a day to day basis and I’ll be of counsel.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    BTW, I did law school in 2 1/2 years commuting 3 days each week to school in Massachusetts while still running my full time business. I’d get up at 4 am, drove 175 miles to school, leave at the end of the day drive home 175 miles and be in the house by 9PM. It was hard, but worth it.

    #1566683

    Meno
    Participant

    Syag,
    In my field, caregivers and direct support professionals for special needs adults get paid minimum wage. Upping the minimum gives us more chance to hire qualified individuals who may actually stick around for more than 8 months

    This makes no sense. If you benefit by paying more, then pay more. Why would it make a difference what minimum wage is?

    #1566741

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Meno – The caregivers are hired by an agency and they determine the rate based on government reimbursement. We just run the programs they are staffing. Most of these types of programs run at a deficit. Adding extra money to the pay rate would close the program.

    #1566746

    Avi K
    Participant

    CTL,
    Having multiple businesses also has a cost. I knew someone who owned a hardware store and then decided to open a second store. He was working so long that his marriage fell apart. Then both stores failed. A healthy work-life balance also makes one a better worker. In fact, according to Halacha an employee may not moonlight without permission as it could harm his performance.

    #1566913

    Meno
    Participant

    Syag –
    The caregivers are hired by an agency and they determine the rate based on government reimbursement. We just run the programs they are staffing. Most of these types of programs run at a deficit. Adding extra money to the pay rate would close the program.

    In your case the problem is not that minimum wage is too low, it’s that the government decides how much to pay these people. It just happens to be that the amount they pay is directly linked to minimum wage.

    #1566918

    JJ2020
    Participant

    Government programs like food stamps to a large extent are actually subisidies for Walmart. Instead of paying their employees enough to live on the government chips in to pay part of Walmarts employees in the form of government benefits and tax credits.

    #1566917

    JJ2020
    Participant

    Phil you are clearly not a successful business owner. How things in the real world work is when a good business owber sees a challenge they invovate, find a way to increase productivity, improve their product or service so they could charge more, negotiate better deals with suppliers expand the customer base, offer new products. All kinds of stuff. A business owner who is operating on track margines counting his pennies isn’t going to be very successful. That’s just how the real world works.

    #1566987

    Phil
    Participant

    JJ2020,

    I presented a very simple example to demonstrate that government-mandated wage increases don’t automatically translate to a higher standard of living for all. You can lecture a “good business owber” about innovation, negotiation, “track margines” and “all kinds of stuff” but success ultimately comes down to profit. Increasing wages by 50%-100% will seriously eat into that profit and have undesired consequences. It’s obvious that you and the other proponents start with the premise that business owners are “rich and greedy” and need to be punished for exploiting the working class. That’s not capitalism, that’s communism and we all know what a successful economic model that turned out to be.

    #1567100

    Phil ,
    Positing Communism as the strawman opposition of Capitalism is convenient but just as disingenuous
    It is correct that small classic business owners have narrow margins and therefore small raises of the minimum wage do make it very difficult, but they are unfortunately a steadily smaller percentage of the business world.

    Re: Mega corporations and much of the tech world ‘the premise that business owners are “rich and greedy” and need to be punished for exploiting’ everyone, is well on target
    And if that is capitalism,it is the capitalism of Animal Farm or Robber Barons 2.0 .
    The very least they can do is give back just a bit to the society that made them a success and invariable interference with others’ potential for success

    #1567209

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    The free market and communism both don’t allow profit.

    #1567234

    Phil
    Participant

    Truth,

    It was JJ2020 who posted, “The real issue is the rich business owners don’t want to pay people enough to live and the workers want o earn enough to live” which is typical communist tripe. There are very few businesses, especially service-related, that can afford to increase the wages of their menial employees by 50%-100%.

    #1567400

    JJ2020
    Participant

    They aren’t paying enough for people to live in that’s why there are so many people who work full time at places like Wal Mart and are on food stamps and Medicaid. There are states and counties with higher minimum wages and their economies haven’t fallen apart. 50 yrs ago the minimum wage was higher and someone the economy grew.

    #1567431

    Meno
    Participant

    They aren’t paying enough for people to live in that’s why there are so many people who work full time at places like Wal Mart and are on food stamps and Medicaid

    Well then maybe the employees should be looking for a different job.

    There are states and counties with higher minimum wages and their economies haven’t fallen apart.

    I hope you understand that this is not an indication that minimum wage is a good thing.

    50 yrs ago the minimum wage was higher and someone the economy grew.

    I hope you understand that this is not an indication that minimum wage is a good thing.

    #1567448

    Phil
    Participant

    JJ2020,

    Nowhere in the Constitution is there a guarantee that everyone will earn a minimum salary of $30K per year. It shouldn’t be an employers responsibility to pay that much to menial workers, many of whom couldn’t be bothered to finish public high school, aren’t qualified to do anything else and make zero effort to better themselves. There are plenty of Walmart employees who started out by sweeping floors, worked hard and eventually became store mangers. If you don’t like it, then find a minimum wage worker and pay them out of your own pocket but don’t lecture hard working, job-creating business owners about their supposed moral obligations.

    #1567482

    Phil,
    Parroting WSJ comments section?

    How many “many of whom couldn’t be bothered to finish public high school, aren’t qualified to do anything else” are Veterans ?That is what they fought for?!Who risked their skin and limbs for their nation , in order that business employers could squeeze what is left of them,when they come back?
    During every conflict it s’ those who shirk serving stay back and wax rich (Do a search almost every household ‘rich name’ made a major part of their climb while being shirkers literally on the backs of their citizens who gave their all?! Have the employers go risk something worthwhile for a change

    Here is from April 2011:
    ‘This isn’t the Britain we fought for,’ say the ‘unknown warriors’ of WWII
    Here are some excerpts.
    ‘What is extraordinary … is their vehement insistence that those who made the ultimate sacrifice in the war would now be turning in their graves.
    …“My patriotism has gone out of the window,” said an ex-serviceman.

    ..“Our British culture is draining away at an ever increasing pace,” wrote an ex-Durham Light Infantryman, “and we are almost forbidden to make any comment.”
    ‘A widow from Solihull blamed the Thatcher years “when we started to lose all our industry and profit became the only aim in life.”
    Her husband, a veteran of Dunkirk and Burma, died a disappointed man, believing that his seven years in the Army were wasted.
    …“As I look around parts of Birmingham today you would never know you were in England,” she wrote. “He would have hated it.”

    #1567552

    chiefshmerel
    Participant

    Soldiers are required to have a high school diploma.

    #1567558

    Phil
    Participant

    Truth,

    Sure, just like you’re parroting class warfare screed from “International Socialist Review”. So now you advocate raising the minimum wage on behalf of veterans? They have and deserve preferential hiring status in U.S. government employment and many U.S. companies go out of their way to hire them. Veterans are disciplined, skilled and dedicated employees but I have no idea what relevance your quotes from the U.K. have to the subject at hand. Do you know anything at all about the U.S. economy or are you just quoting from anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn’s website?

    #1567731

    From the Economist(!)

    Everyone needs enough to live on. Many of those who drop out of the job market, or who work in the gig economy, struggle to get by. And too often, help for the poor comes in ways that are cruel, inefficient, paternalistic or complex..
    There is greater concentration even in non-tradable industries such as housebuilding—in which nobody thinks the quality of output is high.. There is evidence that leading firms, and not laggards, are behind the slowdown. In some industries they may feel they do not need to invest to keep ahead. The tech giants do innovate, but their ideas do not seem to spread through the economy.

    #1567726

    Phil,
    Veteran Advocacy ( and virtually every rural American is at minimum a child or grandchild of veterans)is ” parroting class warfare screed from “International Socialist Review” ? what about you ? what have your done for the good of the country ?
    “Veterans are disciplined, skilled and dedicated employees” is that how come they have such difficulty acclimating to civilian society?

    ” anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn’s website?” How silly . Corbyn is anti veteran .but who cares,yes ?Between his socialism and your capitalism it’s just semantics. tweedledee or Tweedledum
    Proof? Capitalists and Socialists were both anti Brexit
    Just as they were both pro Détente ,both pro oushng opening of China for business which is now backfiring, and both were anti almost all royal governments

    And every war president who called for volunteers or the draft promised those going more equitable situations for them and their descendants as a precondition
    do you know what the Four Freedoms were? Freedom from want,was one of them

    What about you ? What have you and yours done for the greater good of the country ?

    #1567743

    Phil
    Participant

    Truth,

    My company and many others in the U.S. have hired veterans by the tens of thousands. They’re paid much more than $15 per hour because we owe it to them and they’re worth it. One thing I don’t do for the greater good of the country is paint job-creators as rich and greedy, then lecture them about their lack of moral responsibility. How about you? What have you done for your country, aside from criticizing it on the web?

    #1567784

    Avi K
    Participant

    It,

    1. If a vet is not qualified for a job why would any sane employer hire him? The answer is job training. I would add that the student loan program should be junked as it only encourages bloated tuition fees and useless majors. The merit system should also be restored. CCNY was the gateway to the middle class for thousands of children of immigrants, mainly Jews, when it was a meritocracy. When Open Admissions went in in went down the tubes. In fact, I would restore the apprentice system, along with formal courses, for professions. Washington never attended college but was a surveyor. Lincoln never even earned a BA but was a successful lawyer. Truman also never attended college.

    2. Abarbanel also opposed monarchy. He believed, based on bitter experience and the record in the Tanach, that it will always lead to despotism. He considered the republics of Venice and Florence to be models for government.

    #1567864

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Must be a market failure.

    #1567914

    ” Abarbanel also opposed monarchy”
    bringing up once again the outlier?

    #1567989

    Avi K
    Participant

    Abarbanel is an outlier? Apikorsut!

    #1568062

    “Apikorsut”
    Nice boomerang .Avi k
    So we should Ignore the Ibn Ezra ,Radak not to mention the prime Rishonim?
    In R.David Holzer’s published transcriptions when a student challenged Rav Soloveitchik
    with an Abarbanel to the contrary,what was his reaction?

    #1568052

    Chester A. Arthur, Benjamin Harrison, Warren Harding are consistently among the lowest ranking presidents. What other common denominator do they all have?
    They were all the presidents who tolerated free reign capitalism predominance .
    Now name those who ranked the greatest presidents. Every one of them, bar none, was considered anti capitalism in their day or at least lukewarm to what the capitalists desired.They were called by the capitalists “traitors to their class “,etc.

    Socialism? Useful only as binary straw man. Socialism means government control and ownership of industry and business. Doubtful anyone wishes here for government ownership. Therefore it is nothing more than a cudgel.

    When have national economic systems grown best? Not under capitalist regimes. Pull up every study
    and/or graph.

    Under,actually, fascism and progressivism [the economic form, not G-d forbid the social form]

    #1568313

    Avi K
    Participant

    It,
    1. IDK. in any case, a Jewish king is a constitutional monarch not an absolute monarch. He has checks and balances: the Sanhedrin, the nevi’im and the Bet haMikdash aristocracy. according to Radak (interestingly against Abarbanel) not only does one ignore a royal command contrary to a mitzva but the people have an obligation to rebel against a despotic king. In fact, according to the Yerushalmi (Horiot 3:2) the David was removed from office by the people.

    2. Who says that they are considered low ranking presidents because of that? For that matter, who says that they are considered low ranking presidents?

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