1776-2025: NYC, End of an Era

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  • #2418005
    lakewhut
    Participant

    New York city, once the envy of the world is about to end as we know it. Time to leave the 5 boroughs and take the businesses with.

    #2418178
    akuperma
    Participant

    What does 1776 have to do with anything? Jews in New York didn’t get full civil rights for at least another ten years, and the city didn’t become the leading economic center until the the Erie Canal opened. For frum Jews, economic freedom didn’t come until the mid-20th century when the New Deal brought in the five day week (previously most people were required to work a Monday-Saturday schedule, leaving few alternatives from Shomerei Shabbos), and the Great Society made it difficult to legally discriminate against religious minorities.

    New York City and New York State have been steadily declining since the mid-20th century. The fact that New York City is probably (there is still much that could happen) going to elect a socialist anti-Semite as mayor is more a symptom than a disease. Unless you own real estate (including housing) or have bought local bonds, there isn’t too much to worry about (though for Jews the biggest concern is that he will order the police to stop protecting Jews from violent attacks, though in the case the state or federal government is likely to intervene). For frum Yidden, the “blue” cities and states are increasingly hostile, and have been becoming so for some time. Note that almost no frum Jews invest in municipal bonds, and relatively little is invested in real estate (note that in New York City many if not most frum Jews rent rather than own their housing).

    It remains to be seen how the national Democratic party will react to having someone in such a prominent role who self-identifies as a Democrat have views that will discredit the party elsewhere in the country. One option is they could switch to supporting the current mayor who is already on the November ballot, and already has more credibility than a typical third party candidate since he is the incumbent. The most important factor may be the 2026 elections since if WOKE loses nationally, and New York goes purple and elects non-Democrats statewide, the threats will largely go away (so it might be a good idea to wait a bit before moving to Tel Aviv or Texas – though it would be prudent not to buy New York real estate or New York bonds).

    #2418209
    Ex-CTLawyer
    Participant

    It ended in the 1970s, been downhill since

    #2418235
    smerel
    Participant

    NYC has been on the decline since the 1960s. There were some bumps and better times but the trajectory started then. Once the government focuses on social issues rather than the quality of life hard times are ahead. NYC is an exception to most big cities in that (1)it sometimes elected level headed officials and (2)it needs state permission to do a lot of things. Which prevented it from doing many stupid ones. But the way things are now NYC will soon be another Philadelphia, just bigger

    #2418283

    1654 – when Shearith Israel was founded.

    > note that in New York City many if not most frum Jews rent rather than own their housing

    who owns those buildings? maybe other Jews who moved to suburbs themselves?

    #2419108
    akuperma
    Participant

    Always ask: In the 17th and 18th century Jews couldn’t vote and had limited civil rights (in most cases, less than un-enslaved blacks), and there were few economic opportunities other than self-employment due to strict Sunday-closing laws. While secular Jews who ate treff and worked on Shabbos had full civil rights by the Jacksonian era (early 19th century), frum Jews didn’t really have a meaningful set of rights until the mid-20th century. — Jews who move to suburbs will be unaffected by a collapse in New York City realty prices, and may profit as people and businesses move to the suburbs. If a building has nine tenants and one landlord, and all are frum, only 10% suffer from a collapse of housing prices. If the Mamdani election triggers a backlash in the state and New York turns purple (and not that upstate and Long Island already are at least purple), so that by 2027 the Republicans control the state government, the damage will be limited to New York City – and a lot more than the frum community is threatened by Mamdani’s “socialism”.

    #2419199

    akuperma,
    early sephardim were coming here, running away for religious freedom from Spanish/catholic countries.
    19th-20th century immigrants were also coming for more freedom. You can listen to tapes of interviews on Ellis Island website. Some say that the immigration officers asked about professions and directed them to the corresponding guild or trade union. Another Jewish lady describes how her family was saving money in Poland trying to send her to school, and here there was a free public high school … this is not to deny problems with shabbat and observance in general… was it the right idea for rabbis to advocate against going to Amerika except in some cases? Given the midrash that Yaakov sent Yehudah to establish yeshiva in Mitzrayim, maybe there should have been more strong rabinim coming early on? this is, of course, monday morning quarterbacking.

    #2419661
    Kuvult
    Participant

    There is a reason we are called “The Wandering Jew”
    We live somewhere while it thrives both economically & where we are able to practice Judaism until times change & we move on.
    I have family that grew up in a small town with a tiny Jewish community. The Jews rode the wave of prosperity mostly through owning small retail businesses until the economy started to decline.
    The Jewish kids went off to college & did not return as there were very little economic opportunities or functioning Jewish life.
    The parents eventually closed the business & retired.
    The community held on in the 70’s & early 80’s until it was unsustainable due to lack of members & rarely if ever attracting new members.
    This Jewish community ceases to exist.
    It’s sad a place my family has such fond memories of is gone but at the same time these communities were never really meant to be long term Jewish communities.
    Perhaps we see NY as different but we had a good run & perhaps it’s time to admit it & move on before it gets even worse.

    #2419878
    Yaakov Yosef A
    Participant

    As AAQ pointed out, Jewish New York goes back to the mid-17th century. The first Jews sailed in from Brazil about a decade before Shearith Israel was formally founded. BTW, New York was a major trade and financial hub (and the first capital of the new United States) long before the Erie Canal (which, together with the railroads, made Chicago into a major transportation hub). This is the story of Galus ויחנו ויסעו. Parts of Europe were home to huge Jewish communities for close to a millennium. Bavel/Iraq was the preeminent Jewish community for almost 1500 years straight (from יכניה מלך יהודה until רב האי גאון), and remained a major center of Jewish life for another millennium until the 1950s. Almost nothing remains on location from either of those, although the Talmud Bavli, Rashi, Tosfos, Rishonim and Achronim etc. live on with us forever. Remember that in Germany in the 1920’s Jews had more rights and opportunities than anywhere else in Europe. There were some pesky political extremists with antisemitic views, but who took them seriously?

    #2420045

    YYA> Germany in the 1920’s Jews had more rights and opportunities than anywhere else in Europe.

    And in US. Fritz Haber (German Noble winner for inventing fertilizer process and saving billions of lives, and forgotten because he invented poison gas for Germany and killed thousands) visited Atlantis city in c. 1910 and was shocked to see “no dogs and Jews” signs – even when he was told this does not affect him personally as a civilized Jew. He said that nothing like that could happen in Germany …

    But another question – we have Gemora from Bavel, Rambam from Muslim Spain, Shulchan Aruch from Poland, Litvaks and Chabad from Russian empire. What do we have form NYC? R Avigdor Miller, Chaim Berlin, YU? Jewish bankers and lawyers?

    One sefer muses that Jews were sent to different countries to pick up different middos – scholastics from Germany, survival skills from Russians, etc. For America, he chose “scale” – from McDonalds chain to large yeshivos. Not really a middah. but a method. and “large” is not same as “great”. Maybe general uniform education creates some quality like synchronized swimming does (I am told).

    #2420164
    none2.0
    Participant

    Manmandi means praiseworthy, commendable, granted. G-d just blessed us by getting rid of very evil people in power. Let’s be greatful.

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