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I have a relative who lives in Israel and they asked me what I did for yom haatzmaut, I said nothing. Then I asked her what are you going to do for July 4th? She got really defensive. She made it seem like all Jews should celebrate yom haatzmaut. I told her that makes no sense since I’m American, why would I celebrate another country’s independence day? Any thoughts??
Absolutely, correct. I would add even Jews in EY shouldn’t in any way celebrate Yom Haatzshmut.
Well israel IS the Jewish country and u r I’m expecting Jewish. Right? So I totally c her reasoning. But when we lived in America we only went to see fireworks cuz where I lived, they were completely free! So ya that’s really the only reason. Or we would go out to a restraint if we didn’t want to one year. No, not to celebrate, cuz e/o was at the fireworks and the place was empty!
When I was in school we celebrated it. Most modern day schools do. As an adult I don’t.
Absolutely, correct. I would add even Jews in EY shouldn’t in any way celebrate Yom Haatzshmut.
Jews in Israel celebrate Yom Ha’atzmaut because they are happy that they live in E”Y and are on a higher madreiga than those in chu”l. This is, of course, because even 1 square centimeter of the shkotziest corner in Tel Aviv has more inherent kedusha than anyplace else in the world outside E”Y.
Kedushas Eretz Yisroel can be found in Southern Lebanon. More so than in Tel Aviv.
All Jews should celebrate Yom HaAtzmaut. Jewws in EY especially because we have all the benefits, opportunities and challenges (what’s life without challenges?) of having an independent state. Jews in the Lands of Tuma (as per Chazal) because according to many, including Rav Soloveichik and Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky, without Israel there would have been almost total assimilation due to the national depression in the wake of the Holocaust.
As for the US ID, America is a fine country and in many ways the Israel of the Goyim (this is far beyond the scope of this or any post) but it is not ours.
Israel isnt ours. it belongs to the zionists.
sushee: Move there, please.
The zionists yms have made it uninhabitable, by virtue of their historical actions.
kfb: You should celebrate Yom ha’Atzma’ut simply because of the Menuchas haNefesh that you know that should there ever be a pogrom in the USA {& if Chas v’Sholom Obama wins a 2nd term, this certainly cannot be ruled out} you know we have a haven open to us in Eretz Yisroel.
This is only the tip of an iceberg. There is a lot more reason for celebrating Yom ha’Atzmaut even in Chutz lo’Oretz.
kfb- The Land of Israel is inherently holy and it is our homeland. Some people show hakaras hatov to the State of Israel because since the founding of the State, there have been more Jews and Torah in EY since around the time of the destruction of the second Beis HaMikdash. They show this hakaras hatov by celebrating the day the State of Israel was founded.
Also, you can’t compare the ability to go to France with the ability to go to Israel. Israel is our homeland, France is not.
And if the Arabs take over or bomb Israel, which haven will we run to?
147,
I can name a lot of countries that would not have a problem if Jews settle there. The fact that EY is a place where Jews can live (I dont know why you call consider it a safe haven for Jews, Chareidim are hated intermaly and externaly in EY) is not sfficient for us to celebrate.
I find your comment about Obama Stupid and offensive. ( I am no Obama Supporter ).
Would you mind to share with us just a few more reasons on why we should celebrate Yom Hatzamut?
KFB, Israel’s existence obviates the old image of the Jew as a homeless wanderer (according to their theology as a punishment for not accepting their AZ). It’s existence is a source of pride that saved and is saving Am Yisrael from complete assimilation. If you connect to Israel in some way you are connecting to the organism known as Am Yisrael, which only exists in EY, despite living in one of the Lands of Tuma (as per Chazal) and, according to the Zohar by extension Tora and Hashem.You are also connecting to a part of yourself as EY is a part of us, not a foreign country.
Sushee: Rav Schachter quotes Rav Herzog who quotes the Ramban that we are Muvtach from HKBH that we will not have Eretz Yisrael taken from us a third time.
Sam: WADR to them, that is not pashut pshat in the rambam. I think most people would read it as refering to yemos hamashiach. After all, it was taken a third time after bar kochva.
So they may be correct, but the authority is only as good as them, not as good as rambam.
Also, maybe rav herzog thought it was yemos hamashiach, in which case there is no authority at all (bec rav shachter is only saying it bec rav herzog did)
There is nothing wrong with celebrating Israeli independence, when the Yidden there who would have been wiped out by the Arabs in ’48 were saved by a Neis Niglah.
The date in which the Arabs gave up and we “won” was the 11th of Tammuz (July 18, 1948). A day to celebrate!
Ramban speaks of post Beis Hamikdash III Eretz Yisroel.
And I would give a lot more consideration to the thoughts of any of the three shteeble rabbonim I know than R. Schachter.
Sam2: I heard it b’shem Rav Elyashiv too.
2scents: Because it is your country. As for charedim being “hated”, even though there is resentment for various reasons charedim are treated as equal citizens despite the fact that many are against fulfilling any civic duties including voting. You should celebrate yom ha’atzma’ut because Israel is a Jewish country and you are Jewish.
Rav Elyashev shlita referred to the Israeli Kenesset as a botei minus.
Gavra, declaring the State in the face of American and British warnings (and the timidity of some of BG’s advisors) was the pivotal action. The rest was just making it official. Same with Jul. 4. The war was not won until Cornwallis surrendered on Oct. 19, 1781 – after the war turned around with French intervention (masterful diplomacy by Ben Franklin – who says older people cannot learn new professions?).
bump
It is more clear than even before tha there is no reaason to celebrate “Yom Hazmaut” since the new coalition was formed.
It just furthers the government from anything at all to do with Torah.
For those who consider this an aschalta degeula, there was just a huge step backwards.
Avi K: As in the story of Purim, we do not celebrate as long as the fighting is still going on (“Pivotal action” or not). We celebrate when the fighting is over and Boruch Hashem we were saved from being driven into the Yam.
Sorry I didn’t respond earlier, and thanks to Popa for bumping this.
BTW, just to defend my man Ben Franklin:
He was not an old man learning new tricks. He was into diplomacy by the mid 1700’s, he was the peacemaker between the two main factions in the PA Assembly, and he was the Colonies’ representative to England for quite some time.
Interesting fact, if you learn R’ Yisrael Salanter, he has a sefer where he discusses how to improve yourself one middah at a time. That was taken from a psychology book who took it from Benjamin Franklin.
Truthsharer: I was told we have a letter by R’ Yisrael Salanter where he actually quotes that he got his ideas from Benjamin Franklin. I haven’t seen the letter myself though. I should look into that.
If you google “benjamin franklin mussar” you can see some interesting articles about how it made its way into R’ Salanter’s mussar sefer Cheshbon Hanefesh.
It originally was published anonymously by a maskil, and then it was put into Cheshbon Hanefesh.
What is interesting is that Franklin wrote that the ideas should be incorporated by religious writers for their own religious spiritual accounting.
The book Rav Yisroel took it from did not take it from Ben Franklin, despite some folks imaginations claiming otherwise.
What is so horrible that you can’t accept that some ideals are taken from non-Jewish sources?
Nothing except the facts. And the fact is it isn’t factual. The claims otherwise are simply imagination without any proof, because none exists.
In other words, you haven’t read any of the articles, or sefarim for that matter.
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