December 20, 2012 2:17 pm at 2:17 pm #1009207
I don’t understand all of this nonsense! Why is it a problem for a jeweler such as myself, to wear an expensive watch if we sell it to my customers also, if any customer sees if I have a fake one, he will be turned off, and think that I sell fakes!
With all kavod, A BP YidDecember 20, 2012 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #1009208
“@ BaalHabooze, really?? first of all, i wouldnt even recognize a fancy watch if i saw one, and dont have a concept of how much they could cost.
EVERYONE has their tayvos, no one is exempt. and when each of us look at our laundry list of things that we need to fix, why do you feel the need to look at your neighbor and worry about the simple tayva of a wealthy person. maybe that is his test, and i’m not even convinced that he failed if he chooses to buy it. seriously, why do we have to point fingers at other people?”
I, in no way take these ads, nor any $40,000 watches on frum people, negatively on a PERSONAL level. And I don’t intend to fix anyone’s tayvos/chisronos, but myself. I DO take issue of others flaunting & showing off insanely expensive gashmiyus accessories/vacations in frum people’s faces, or even advertising them in our magazines. Ask any Rav, talmud chocham, tzaddik, Rebbe, and Chacham. I reinstate, I don’t know if it is an issur per se, but it certainly does not fit in within the hashkofik realm of a Torah Jew.December 20, 2012 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #1009209
People are complaining about a $40,000 calling it Gashmuth. What about peoples name on a building, If thats not gashmuith, what is?
I know its Tzdekah, so give the Tzdkah privaely no need to put your name and your whole family on the buildingDecember 20, 2012 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #1009210cantgetitMember
zsdad: Absolutely correct. It is much much better to give tzedaka without having your name on the building.December 20, 2012 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #1009211
Unfortunately, without the name, there would be no building.December 20, 2012 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #1009212TheGoqParticipant
I guess its true time IS money.December 20, 2012 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #1009213
Booz, question for you:I was recently in a liquor store and a young kid dropped about $2500 on the finest scotches and whisky. He proudly stated that only the best was good enough when his friends came over to him for shabbos.(he also rolled his eyes when he saw me buying a Glenlivet 15 year for a mere 50 bucks). Do you agree that this is as bad as the $40,000.00 watch?(at least you get to keep the watch)December 20, 2012 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #1009214
Earlier post quote: ” idon’t understand all of this nonsense! Why is it a problem for a jeweler such as myself, to wear an expensive watch if we sell it to my customers also, if any customer sees if I have a fake one, he will be turned off, and think that I sell fakes!
With all kavod, A BP Yid”
To above posters, once again, if one is in the business of liquor he should only stock cheap things!? If one sells watched should he only stock watches that give him little revenue! And the tzedaka names on buildings can also be for advertisement if ones name is an advertisement for company (if his name is name of company).
Signed A BP yidDecember 20, 2012 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #1009215
C’mon, dafbiyun, you can’t compare a necessity to a luxury. 🙂December 20, 2012 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #1009216
Is one obligated to buy a 1992 Ford Grand Torino station wagon or is it “against the torah” to buy a brand new Lexus or at least a brand new Toyota Camry.December 20, 2012 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #1009217
L and O and L to you, Daas YochidDecember 20, 2012 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #1009218
I always wondered whether there might be an issur for women to wear super luxury items on Shabbos. While we allow women to wear jewlery nowdays( a seperate discussion) nevertheless we know that an “ir shel zahav” which was made from so much gold that chazal determined that its purpose was primarily to flaunt one’s wealth rather than to look enhance one’s appearance is aussur.Could a 40,000.00 watch fall under the same issur?
On the other hand , men should remember that they are required to buy jewlery for their wives in line with their means, particularly before each yom tov.December 20, 2012 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #1009219
dafbiyun: Hey, not fair, you know booze is my soft spot. You need to ask your LOR on that for an unbiased psakDecember 20, 2012 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #1009220WIYMember
There are many things that are assur depending on your intentions. Are you buying a lexus because you can afford it? Or is a camry much more in line with your finances but you want to project an image that you are wealthy which is gaivah. Even if you are wealthy, if you are buying the car to show off and to make others jealous it is assur. Its a bad thing to do and will likely bring an ayin hara. Yknow some people don’t get it that EVERYTHING YOU DO has to be weighed under the guise of Torah and Torah Hashkafah. Hello, even regarding going to the bathroom there are simanim in shulchon aruch about how and what to do and where and we make a bracha after.
Our money is a gift from Hashem. It is also a nisayon if you have too little or too much. A person has to realize that getting stuck in the muck of gashmiyus brings you down. If you wear a $40,000 watch that means you are invested in gashmiyus. A person who gets a high out of luxuries and puts importance into that will not easily get a high out of doing mitzvos and learning a daf gemarah. They are contradictions. Pursuit of luxuries get in the way of pursuit of ruchniyus. You really can’t have both. A person can only have one priority. Whatever he prioritizes will automatically cause other things to be less important to him.December 20, 2012 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1009221
On the contrary, you are the perfect person to adress the question. here is the analogy: all women have a weak spot for jewlery . The question is should she spend $40,000.00 on a watch even if she can afford it or try to live with a $5,000 watch … which can certaily be beautiful.Same with scotch. You know that after reaching $100 a bottle the taste difference becomes neglible(IMHO)and its really just a status symbol( are those guys who are putting out bottles of J.Walker blue at a kiddush reallly doing so to be mehana the oilem or for their own kovod?) So really, isn’t buying $350 bottles sort of the same thing as buying absurdly expensive jewlery?December 20, 2012 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #1009222
Again, for an unbiased psak, you ask your LOR. That’s what I do. That is my final answer.December 20, 2012 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #1009223uneeqMember
DafBiyun: No self-respecting alcoholic would refer to Blue Label as the gold standard of scotch. It is an overpriced blend of junk whiskies that my father serves to all the fake Meivinim.December 20, 2012 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #1009224
to those who are so sure that putting ones name on a building is wrong: while this may seem logical, the fact is many pokim state that one should allow his name to be placed on a donated item so that others will do the same.December 20, 2012 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #1009225
uneeq- that is exactly why i chose blue as my example it is obviously a rookie’s scotch which no respectable drinker would go near. ( by the way does anyone know if there is anywhere you can still find balvinie 15? they seem to have stopped production.)December 20, 2012 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #1009226
@all of the above
10) Chivas Regal Royal Salute, 50 years old.
The Chivas Regal 50-year Royal Salute is released in 2003 as a special edition to celebrate Queen Elizabeth II 50 years on the throne (coronation day in 1953). Each bottle features a hand-engraved 24-carat gold plaque. There were only 255 bottles in the world.
9) The Macallan 1939, 40 years old.
First bottled in 1979, this peaty and powerful whisky that comes with dried fruit and sweet toffee flavors was re-bottled in 2002, and added to McCallan’s Fine and Rare line.
8) Glenfarclas 1955, 50 years old.
This whisky, bottled in 2005 exactly fifty years to the day after it was distilled, was hand-picked by George S. Grant to celebrate the birth of his ancestor, John Grant, who bought the Glenfarclas distillery back in 1865. The entire 110 bottles sold out even before this whisky was released.
7) Dalmore 50 Year Old Decanter
Bottled in 1978 into just sixty crystal decanters. Reputably one of the best 50 year old whisky ever made, and a personal favorite of many rich families in the world.
6) The Macallan 55 Year Old Lalique Crystal Decanter
A celebration between two great nations and one of the finest creative collaborations between Scotland and France, The Macallan 55 Years old Lalique is bottled in 1910 in a perfume bottle designed by Rene Lalique. Worldwide, only 420 decanters were released, with only one hundred available in the United States.
5) Glenfiddich 1937
64 year old Glenfiddich, widely regarded as the oldest bottle of whisky in the world. This Glenfiddich’s 1937 Rare Collection whisky had only one bottle ever produced, with the single bottle sold at a 2006 auction.
4) The Dalmore 62 Single Hiland Malt Scotch
One of the only twelve bottles produced in 1943. The whisky was purchased for $58,000 at the Pennyhill Park Hotel in Surrey, where the anonymous buyer reportedly share it with five of his lucky friends.
3) The Macallan 1926 Fine and Rare
It is rumored that a South Korean businessman paid $75,000 in 2005 for the chance to own a bottle of this scotch, whose flavor is described as dry and concentrated. The rumor is later confirmed by Macallan themselves.
2) Dalmore 64 Trinitas
Trinitas is named because there are only three bottles of this whisky been made. This whisky is a blend of rare stocks, containing spirits dating from 1868, 1878, 1926 and 1939. This is the first scotch to sell for six figures.
1) Macallan 64 Year Old in Lalique
And here it is, the most expensive scotch in the world: The Macallan 64 Year Old in Lalique! The scotch was sold for $460,000 at an auction at Sotheby’s, New York on November 2010, breaking the record for the most expensive whisky ever sold, and claiming the title of world’s most expensive scotch.
The special decanter was designed and created by famed French designer Lalique, and contains 1.5 litres of the rare “The Macallan” whisky. The special decanter, itself, is crafted with a unique “cire perdue”, or “lost wax” method.December 20, 2012 11:16 pm at 11:16 pm #1009228
What was that in the original Yiddish?December 20, 2012 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #1009229
good news for booze… it seems none of the above were made using sherry casks:)December 21, 2012 1:10 am at 1:10 am #1009230interjectionParticipant
“It is our duty as Jews to spiritually help and correct others.”
If there was ever a mitzva that was misused, abused, misapplied and used as an excuse to knock another person, this is it.
+100December 21, 2012 2:46 am at 2:46 am #1009231
To Dy, everyone understands the language of schnapps 🙂December 21, 2012 4:21 am at 4:21 am #1009232aurora77Participant
You crack me up, aHeiligeYid! 🙂December 21, 2012 7:14 am at 7:14 am #1009234shininaMember
I dont have money, but if someone does and wants to use it for tanugai haolam hazeh, that’s there business, and if someone wants to make money off of there misuse of there good fortune, can u blame them.December 21, 2012 1:07 pm at 1:07 pm #1009235phdmomMember
We ALL use whatever money we have for tanugei olam haba, but each according to their means (hopefully). I personally believe that we are all too megusham, and that is not the life that Hashem wants us to lead. when there is so much wrong going on in the world, so so many actual aveiros and lack of middos, that this issue which comes down to sensitivity, prioritizing etc is petty and smacks of jealousy.December 21, 2012 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #1009236chalilavchasMember
I got curious and went on the Rolex website and checked for authorized dealers in New York. The Rolex authorized dealers close to the frum neighborhoods (NYC, Long Island) are not familiar or frum sounding names.
For instance, the only authorized dealer in Brooklyn is a store, whose other location is open on Shabbos. So who are we blaming?
In response to the mention of Boro Park chandeliers:
One of my relatives living in BP has one of the grandest looking chandeliers, which was bought on Ebay for $200. Big deal.December 21, 2012 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #1009237yehudayonaParticipant
I think it’s inappropriate for frum people to flaunt their wealth, simply because it elicits anti-semitism. Nevertheless, if it’s helpful for one’s business, I think it’s OK. So aHeiligeYid can wear an expensive watch, and someone who drives around clients can own a Lexus.December 21, 2012 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #1009238thehockMember
There was a nice story in Smiling Each Day from Rabbi Twersky about a wealthy guy who is bragging to his Rebbe about how he is mistapeik b’muat and only eats hard bread and drinks water. To which the Rebbe replies (something to this effect), “From now on, I want you to eat stuffed geese and drink fine wine. Reason being, if hard bread and water are good enough for you, you’ll think stones are good enough for the pauper. But your mitzvah is to give generously to the poor, and in order to do that, you need to be eating better yourself.”
I tend to agree with old man – someone else’s money should stay out of your mind. Yet at the same time, I think there is something about farginning that needs to be worked on. I would hope frum Yidden could walk past the luxuries owned by the rich and say, “Thank you Hashem for giving my fellow Yidden parnassah.” This is the achdus we should feel – I am happy for my brother that he is successful, and I wish more of my brothers were.December 21, 2012 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #1009239
MASKIMDecember 21, 2012 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #1009240rebdonielMember
One doesn’t need to spend an arm and a leg to be frum.
Clothes don’t need to be designer. Meat can and should only be eaten on Shabbos and Yom Tov, even if then. A vegetarian lifestyle is healthier and cheaper, anyways. You only need to worry about maintaining 1 set of kitchen equipment and plates, and another set for Pesach.
I see Judaica for cheap in different places, like Closeout Connection and Amazing Savings.
I believe that instead of wasting money on luxuries, we should give more to the needy and reprioritize.December 21, 2012 4:35 pm at 4:35 pm #1009241tzaddiqMember
besides the hashkafik issues above, it’s just plain a bad marketing area, to advertise in a frum publication. why cant you advertise in goyish publications that serve and are catered specifically for the rich and wealthy people. most fum people cant afford those jewlery, and those who can few will actually make the purchase. its like advertizing ferraris in a yiddish newspaper in Williamsberg…December 21, 2012 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #1009242chalilavchasMember
The other ad was an ostentatious advertisement for a frum Jewelry business with a picture of a $40,000+ watch on it.
It probably wasnt a Rolex, if it was advertised by a frum store. Rolex doesnt have any frum sounding dealers listed on their website. Are there $40G watches from another maker? Just curious.December 21, 2012 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #1009243apushatayidParticipant
Data obviously shows the advertisers that those they want to reach, read said publications so their advertisements are not out of place. It may elicit certain reactions in their non target audience (jealousy is what I am reading), but it is of no concern to them.
“why cant you advertise in goyish publications that serve and are catered specifically for the rich and wealthy people.”
Not sure how many non jewish rich and wealthy are interested in spending Pesach in the Swiss Alps or in buying the latest and greatest shtreimel or sheitel, even if it is top of the line at 4 grand a pop and 30% off.December 21, 2012 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #1009244WIYMember
Yes there are many brands with such watches. There are watches that cost over $1,000,000.December 21, 2012 5:43 pm at 5:43 pm #1009245tzaddiqMember
apushatayid – you know i was refering specifically to jewlery when i posted that.December 21, 2012 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #1009246rebdonielMember
The Shevet Yehuda specifically says that Jewish flaunting of wealth was a cause of some of the persecutions in Spain, at a time when the goyim were economically depressed.
AFAIK, there are sadly tons of acheinu bnei yisroel eating in soup kitchens, schnorring, and desperate for a job. We need vocational training and parnassa, not shtus like Rolexes.December 22, 2012 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #1009247just my hapenceParticipant
daf – You can get Balvenie 15 here in England still… They keep the good stuff here in the U of K and send out the rest to the US and pass it off as quality to gullible Americans who think they know better…December 23, 2012 12:54 am at 12:54 am #1009248apushatayidParticipant
So, now that jewelry is a non advertisable item in a jewish publication whats next on your hit list? Should travel agencies no longer advertise fares to Eretz Yisrael because many cant afford to fly? Perhaps the magazines should not be sold because some cant afford a subscription. Stop your petty jealousy and grow up.December 23, 2012 3:18 am at 3:18 am #1009249
C’mon, that’s not fair. Although I disagree, what the OP was complaining about is ostentatious, over-the-top luxury. You can’t compare that to a trip to E.Y.December 23, 2012 3:24 am at 3:24 am #1009250Loyal JewMember
$40,000 would support a Torah family for two years. Where’s the heter to spend it on a watch?December 23, 2012 3:34 am at 3:34 am #1009251
What’s the issur?December 23, 2012 6:01 am at 6:01 am #1009252shininaMember
LJ its there money,they dont need a heter. Of course giving it to tzdaka would be the righteous thing to do, but evreytime u buy something a little too expensive u DONT need a heter.December 23, 2012 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #1009253
$40,000 would support a Torah family for two years. Where’s the heter to spend it on a watch?
By that argument where is the Heter to Eat Sushi, Drink Cabarot Soveignon and drive a New Car.
One could eat bread and water and give the “excess” money to a torah family. Chicken, Kedem Concord Grape and a 1992 Ford Wagon are just fineDecember 23, 2012 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #1009254
In the late 19th century in the Shtels, people were poor and starving and povery began to get glorified by many Rabbaim. Unfortunatly gloryfing povery doesnt help you eat and many jews emigrated to america.
Remember the nickname for america was “de Goldena Medina”December 23, 2012 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #1009255
Once you have given maaser, your money is yours to do as you wish. It says a lot for the prosperity of our communities if advertisers look to our publications to advertise such luxurious items.
We all know that sadly, there are moisdos and “poor” who just waste tzedoko money or really have no right whatsoever to collect it. Better to spend $150 for a bottle of whisky for Shabbos than to give even 15 cents to someone who is basically picking others’ pockets to line his own pocket.
Half the parnosso crisis in the community is a matter of half the people who cry about wanting parnosso being too lazy or hidebound to do anything about it. Three times I “gave someone a break” – three times it left me almost broke because the three heiliger Yidden acted as if they were entitled to money without working.December 23, 2012 3:05 pm at 3:05 pm #1009256
Poverty was not “glorified by the rabbonim.” It was considered a test just as today’s wealth is a test. You get your knowledge of Jewish history from Fiddler on the Roof.December 23, 2012 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #1009257
It should also be noted that the ad for the watch is not there davka to get people to spend that kind of money on a watch. If the advertiser is the one I think it is, that store is upscale, but has plenty of items that are affordable for special occasions (ie chassune, vort).
First of all, the watch manufacturer picks up some of the cost of that ad, saving the owner of the store money. Then, the watch creates an image for the store by letting potential customers know that the store is respected enough to carry such watches.December 23, 2012 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #1009258just meParticipant
So well said DaasYochid!
My thought about it are:1)If someone earned the money honestly and didn’t ask me to subsidize his expensive watch (or whatever bauble)I don’t care. 2)I personally wouldn’t don’t understand the need of someone to buy such high end thing unless it is much better than a lower end item i.e. lasts much longer, better resale value, more comfortable. 3)People should look at their own budgets and pockets and not someone else’s.
Oh, and more ahavas Yisroel and less jealousy would make Moshiach come faster, I think.
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