- This topic has 20 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 9 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Acknowledging a very positive change over the last two or three generations in Klal Yisroel, whereas as children we all probably knew older Yidden, often our parents or grandparents, who were commonly known by their English names, such as Harry, Jay, Barry, Debbie, Rachel or Blossom, Baruch Hashem with the younger doros the children are commonly known and called by their Jewish names such as Hershel, Yankel, Baruch, Devoiry, Ruchy and Blima.
Why is it very positive as opposed to just a change? Do children called by their Jewish names end up better? My Ruv reminds us there was Antignous ish Socho. It’s not that his Jewish name was Avraham and his Goyish name was Antignous but at his Bris he was given a Greek name as his Jewish name. The same with Rebbe Tarfon. Both his parents were Kohanim and he was from a powerful wealthy elite family. But at his Bris his parents named him Tarfon after the Greek general “Tryphon” So does a child being called by a Jewish name or even being given a Jewish name “do better”? These 2 very famous Jews did just fine being called Greek names and there are plenty more examples.
First you need to figure out what the benefit is and how to measure if there is any benefit.
(Why they were given Greek instead of Jewish names at their Bris is a different discussion.)Why would you call your daughter Devoiry or Ruchy rather than Devorah or Rachel?? I guess you have a problem with names from the torah having changed Yosef to UJM….
This is indeed a very important improvement, after all, one of the four reasons why the Yidden were redeemed from מצרים was because “לא שינו שמם (ויק”ר)”.
Let’s hope that we are redeemed from this golus as well in this zechus!
@Kuvult: ujm did not say that children with Jewish names fare better in life than those with non-Jewish names.
He just pointed out that it is a positive change.
Yidden are less focused on integrating with the goyim, and more proud of our traditions. This is a beautiful thing. (Especially in light of the aforementioned Vayikra Rabba)
@Gadolhatorah: It has been part of Jewish tradition for centuries to give Yiddishe nicknames, as apposed to goyishe names.Joseph,
Based on your line of reasoning, we should all be speaking Lashon Hakodesh and certainly not a linguistic hodgepodge from anti-Semitic Germans, Poles and Russians.
I’m sure you’re familiar with what Harav Moshe Feinstein, zt”l wrote regarding the names used in Mitzrayim, that it was a necessary way of distinguishing themselves there since they hadn’t yet received the Torah.
@Gadolhadofi: How can you speak that way about Yiddish? Yiddish is the language used by holy Yidden and tzaddikim for a thousand years!
This is the language that they used for divrei Torah, shiurim, chizzuk, etc.
Most of the Rishonim and Acharonim that we learn learned the gemara with זאגט די גמרא, פרעגט די גמרא etc.
The very name of this language shows on its Jewishness.
In general, we see that from the 70 languages, there are certain languages which were uplifted by the fact that they were used for Torah and considered holy (e.g. Aramaic, Greek, etc.)Gadol – if MO were sitting and learning and not involved in goyishe media/mingling with them, then i don’t think anyone would object to them having goyishe names. It’s they who need the separation the most; they indeed haven’t been mekabel the Torah, and are more assimilated than the generation who left litzrayim. Names, dress, philosophy, language, behavior, everything is copied and pasted directly from the goyim.
I would actually say that a big generational trend is the ascendency of Israel names.
Herman Wouk’s grandfather came to USA, tried to teach in Yiddish, never learned English as it sounded rude, and left for EY
But as of now, there are so many books and shiurim in English, maybe it will be a new Aramaic… Imagine in 500 years Chinese speaking Jews toiling with artscroll like their grandfathers did
For those who want to protect their kids completely from the outside world, naming a kid Feiga is the best. Except for the small number of kids who would want to see the world 🌎 and will have to completely abandon Feiga for Molly.
A middle way is to use Jewish names that do not sound too weird for the rest of the world: David Jacob.. and with current cultural tolerance, this list is pretty long.
The real question is when & how does a name become “Jewish”?
I’m referring to commonly used names today that have zero connection to Judaism.
Please explain when these became Jewish names.
Akiva, Lipa, Mendel, Ber, Wolf, Alexander, there’s even a Rebbe in Tosfos named “Peter”, and many more.Avira,
Instead of criticizing an entire demographic of Orthodox Jews, especially just weeks away from Tisha B’Av, perhaps you should read the CR שנאת חינם thread.
Avira,
Why are you so nasty to Yidden that are different than you? It’s not your job to judge them. You don’t need to agree with them or daven at their Shul but you do need to respect them as fellow Jews@Kuvult – “there’s even a Rebbe in Tosfos named “Peter””
But let’s remember that Peter “the apostle” (l’havdil?) whose Hebrew name was שמעון כיפה was nicknamed in seforim “שמעון פטר חמור” (PETER chamor).
[By the way, Peter is Greek for כיפה (rock, or dome). Peter locked himself in a church on a dome for many years.
Some say that he was a tzaddik who was מוסר נפש to distance Christianity from Judaism. According to some sefroim he actually composed many of the tefillos of Yom Kippur, including נשמת כל חי. Other seforim say that this is blasphemy.]I always heard Nishmas Kol Chai was written by Paul. He was sent on a mission by the Rabbis to separate Christianity from Judaism. They were very similar and ignorant Jews couldn’t tell the difference. Peter said Non-Jews have to keep Halacha while Paul said they didn’t. So it makes sense later for Paul to write it letting
Jews know he was never really a Christian he was just following thetge orders of the Rabbanim.@Kuvult:
I think you are mistaken.
Otzar Midrashim says this about Shimon Kipah (=Peter).
Sefer Chassidim calls “Shimon Kipah – Peter Chamor” a “tzaddik whom people erred after.”
Machzor Vitri brings in the name of Rabbeinu Tam that the nussach of Yom Kippur was arranged by Shimon Kipah.
Elsewhere he writes “there are some who say that Nishmas Kol Chai was written by “Shimon Peter Chamor” when he was on the stone [=”Petros” in Greek]. Chas V’shalom to say such a thing, anyone who says so will have to bring a korban chataas when the Beis Hamikdosh is rebuilt.”
(see רמב”ם עוז והדר הלכות מלכים ע’ שעב הע’ רמב)Comparing the early 21st to the mid-20th century, Americans have less “hang ups” about non-WASP ethnicities of all types, and significantly greater toleration of religious groups other than the “mainline” Protestant churches. We are benefits of this increased diversity.
According to the Midrash Otzar Midrashimj (Eisenstein) Shimon Kaifa (Peter) was a double agent. He gave the impression that he was (yeshu’s standing for yms’v) messenger and then when the Jews accepted Shimon, he would tell them that yeshu is against them. Shimon Kaifa spent the whole year in a tower and only showing himself once a year.
RebE, I think the source of this hilarious midrash is somewhere middle ages. I am not completely sure whether it is not a parody. It takes every nikuda of Xian story and finds an anti-explanation for it. Such as – Shimon could not eat their non-kosher meat, so he became ascetic, etc.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.