November 29, 2011 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #600895
Proof from Bechoros 2a, Rashi d’h Rabbi Yehuda permits selling an animal with a broken foot to a non-Jew only in a place where there is no suspicion that the non-Jew will use the animal for a (disgusting) sin. We see from here a strong reason not to vote for a liberal politician even if they will help our finances.November 29, 2011 9:34 pm at 9:34 pm #831111cleverjewishpunMember
Clearly its not Halacha L’Meisah as we have fine tuned a system of benefits for votes.
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money” – Maragert ThatcherNovember 29, 2011 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #831112
Are non jews today suspected of this sin?November 29, 2011 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #831113
It’s because it would be lifnei iver. There are pages in Avodah Zarah which deal with this. Lifnei iver applies with regard to non-Jews as well.November 29, 2011 10:12 pm at 10:12 pm #831114JotharMember
And kol shekein a frum yid should shut down a website rather than being machshil others.November 29, 2011 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #831115
Are they suspect of this sin today?November 29, 2011 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #831116
I don’t think so. It’s not a question of suspect, it’s a question of being able to assume that they will do it. Therefore I do not believe it applies in our society.November 29, 2011 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #831117skiaddictMember
Why not? If anything people have become even more sick than ever before..November 29, 2011 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #831118WIYMember
No, I asked a Rav and was told that this din as well as a male having Yichud with a male non Jew (the Rambam says the average non Jew is Chashud on homosexuality) is not applicable today. (Unless you know that the person is a depraved low life or homosexual and then you have what to be concerned about so ask your Rav)November 30, 2011 4:19 am at 4:19 am #831119
Lifnei iver is only when there is a very high probability that your action will cause a bad thing to be done. Even though there are some depraved people, most do not stoop this low.November 30, 2011 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #831120
Yitaynm: Lifnei iver is only when there is a very high probability that your action will cause a bad thing to be done. Even though there are some depraved people, most do not stoop this low.
Check the statistics for toeiva marriages in NY, voting for the politicians that push that agenda would seem to be a direct cause of certainly encouraging “bad things to be done”, seems very naive to think otherwise.November 30, 2011 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #831121HaLeiViParticipant
WIY, what about Shfichas Domim?November 30, 2011 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #831122
Toeva marriages have not extended to horses just yet.November 30, 2011 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #831123JotharMember
Many jewelry shops owned by frum people sell crosses to goyim. It’s muttar because they are not worshipped, but it’s mechuar. Should people stop selling crosses? Also, frum electronic stores sell many devices that can lead people to sin. Are they allowed to do so?November 30, 2011 7:31 pm at 7:31 pm #831124
I should have been more clear. I meant high probability as in at least a majority of cases, and even that possibly isn’t sufficient to establish the issur of lifnei iver.
Obviously as common as “toeiva marriages” are they have not reached that level and won’t reach it anytime soon. And as apushatayid points out, we are talking about something far less common than even that.November 30, 2011 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #831125
yitayn: Do you think b’zman hagemara more than a majority of goyim were chashud on this and now they are not? (with all due respect to WIY’s Rav) And also according to you the olam should keep voting for candidates like Bob Turner’s opponent at least until the majority of marriages are toeiva, never mind the issue of Chillul Hashem since it is to our financial benefit?December 1, 2011 12:24 am at 12:24 am #831126
Do you think b’zman hagemara more than a majority of goyim were chashud on this and now they are not?
Absolutely. Historically these are the facts.
As for politics, I don’t know the situation (I’m not from the district and I don’t follow its politics). But I’m sure there are arguments either way.December 1, 2011 7:02 am at 7:02 am #831127HaLeiViParticipant
little, you know in which country the Amoraim lived. It’s not that far fetched there now, either.December 1, 2011 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #831128
Right Rashi said it is tolui on makom so Sounds good USA guys I am ready if you see any help wanted ads for shepherds let’s go. Could be a good, new career path for bnei Torah, it’s healthy, clean money, hours might be a bit long but..
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