November 11, 2009 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #590793dovidshmuelMember
The Baal Shem Tov taught that once people really know and really believe that a certain behavior of theirs is being governed by the yetzer hora they will stop the behavior. I have crudely designed “Stop Smoking Stickers” consisting of a burning cigarette overlaying large red letters saying (in either Hebrew or English):
What do you think? Do you think this would work as well as I think it would?November 11, 2009 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #683292artchillParticipant
Doing this will be construed as a BAN. Bans work in moderation. However, now that bans have been SO ABUSED, people look at banned things as the ideal. So, doing this would most likely INCREASE cigarette use in our community.November 11, 2009 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #683293GetzelParticipant
i meant a gitten purimNovember 11, 2009 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #683294arcParticipant
My guess is you arent a smoker.November 11, 2009 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #683295shaatraMember
I think its a pretty good idea, not saying it’ll for sure work, but its worth a try.November 11, 2009 11:43 pm at 11:43 pm #683296mybatMember
Maybe don’t right yetzer hara but instead something like a pasuk of taking care of your health?November 12, 2009 12:03 am at 12:03 am #683297goody613Member
this will not work. i know a big talmid chochom whu smokes. most ppl smoking know its wrong telling them its the yetzer hora won t helpNovember 12, 2009 12:25 am at 12:25 am #683298mazcaMember
smoke so much one day that you will never want to see a cigarrette again in your life . Just get tired of it. I did it once I never smoked again in my life. Long, long, time ago.November 12, 2009 1:19 am at 1:19 am #683299yankdownunderMember
I think if someone would like to quit smoking and is having a tough time doing so, then perhaps the smoker could work toghether with his physcian to stop. Physcians (hopefully) care about the health of their patients and have a plethora of medicines to aid smoking cessation. A organization like the American Cancer Society may have additional ideas.November 12, 2009 1:49 am at 1:49 am #683300pookieMember
oh please! we’re talking about something that can kill you, if they’re smoking all together they wont stop just because they saw a bumper stickerNovember 12, 2009 2:28 am at 2:28 am #683301
Just say no? That’s your idea, basically. Never happen. The will and impulse to smoke is so strong that people who are literally on their deathbeds from lung cancer will beg for a smoke, even as they choke to death. never underestimate the power that this holds over those who are addicted to it. Even the Rabbonim who smoke, can’t give it up.November 12, 2009 2:38 am at 2:38 am #683302mazcaMember
Yes it is a very big addiction that is why they should give classes to prevent people from smoking. Educate the youth before it is too late.November 12, 2009 3:06 am at 3:06 am #683303ronrsrMember
I think that in the USA, where there have been extensive anti-smoking campaigns and pressure of other sorts for almost 50 years now, the only older people who are left smoking are those who have severe physical addictions. In light of all the medical evidence and social stigma, all those who could give up smoking have already done so.
Those who still smoke are perhaps more deserving of support and compassion than of more stigma.
Whenever I see one of these poor souls, I am grateful that 1) I never started smoking and 2) I don’t have the physiology that would cause me to have such unbearable urges.
actually, I did start when I was about 19, but didn’t even make it 1/4 way through one cigarette before discovering that I was not cut out to be a smoker.April 11, 2010 12:50 am at 12:50 am #683304someonesboredMember
theres nothing u can do to make somrbody stop. if the person really wants to stop then he can stop. nothing else works.April 11, 2010 1:26 am at 1:26 am #683305
ronrsr well said
people don’t realize, it is an addiction and instead of looking down at ppl that smoke, or coughing when they walk by etc..
feel bad for them and keep your thoughts to your self.
when i talk to someone with bad breath do i say something? NO I don’t!
smoking is no different.April 11, 2010 1:54 am at 1:54 am #683306
chesedname, with all due respect, your analogy is a poor choice. When someone has bad breath, (which smoking causes,too, just as an aside) they are possibly bothering my aesthetic senses, but they are not endangering my life, polluting the air I breathe, or hurting themselves. They just smell bad. Smoking is an insidious problem, a filthy habit, and wasteful of money that could be put to better use. And those are only its virtues! Don’t look down at anybody, but no one has a right to deliberately rot the air that we all need to breathe, and possibly endanger us through second-hand smoke.April 11, 2010 6:05 am at 6:05 am #683307
oomis1105 as much as i respect you, i would have to strongly disagree.
The fact that smoking is legal, gives everyone that right!
If smoking was legal in a restaurant, and you were there, you would have the right to leave, or ask him/her to put it out. but everyone has a right to smoke. that’s the law like it or not.
Yes it’s a dirty habit and expensive etc… but these problems are not ours, it’s the smokers alone.
As far as second hand smoke, being the only place you’re allowed to smoke is out doors it doesn’t pollute the air nearly as much as vehicles, manufacturing facilities or many other things do.
i personally think tattoos are a waste of money and disgusting i would never say anything to a person that had one. i think chewing gum is a disgusting habit i wouldn’t make a face or comment to them. the list goes on and on.April 11, 2010 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #683309
Again, chesed, tatoos and chewing gum, which ARE indeed unpleasant to look at, do NOT pollute my air and contribute to an unhealthy environment for people besides the one who smokes. The fact that something is LEGAl does not make it right. It is legal for a criminal to get off scot-free because he was not properly mirandized when arrested. It is unfortunately legal for an untzniusdig picture where people cannot avoid seeing it, and it is right across from the major shopping center. That, too, is legal, apparently (and a better analogy, btw, because it hurts ALL of us, not just the men who frequent that place, to have that shmutz up, and to have a place like that there). One can find all sorts of things that are legal, but nonetheless are not good for us to have around if they hurt others besides the user. I understand what you are trying to say, but again, respectfully agree to disagree with you.
EDITEDApril 11, 2010 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #683310
you didn’t address cars, shouldn’t they be illegal? they produce tremendous amounts of pollution?April 12, 2010 1:54 am at 1:54 am #683311
What I don’t understand is -why so many yeshivos allow smoking? A lot of yeshivos ban newspapers, magazines and radios -why don’t they ban smoking?!April 12, 2010 3:21 am at 3:21 am #683312
health that is the million dollar question! if parents wouldn’t send to the yeshivas that aren’t strict about it, this whole issue would go away.
i would like to hear your thoughts on cars, and please don’t say we need them! if it’s polluting the air and dangerous which it definitely is, why not make a fuss about that?April 12, 2010 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #683313
You can’t blame parents for sending to yeshivos which aren’t strict about smoking because there are so few yeshivos that are -you can count them on one hand.April 12, 2010 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #683314dogoParticipant
Chesedname: i think that oomis is tring to tell u that he is not talking about laws, legally, we are talking about Yiddishkeit, and maners (wich go together), and i agree to that.
And about the Yeshivos; u seem to have not gone to the yishivos which “allow” smoking (you may be a female), so i will tell u that there is no yeshiva that i know about that allows smoking. The point that was said about being strict is also not true. In mesivtas (high school) again every yeshiva i know about, is strict about it. However you will find that in Beis Medresh (after 12th grade) there are places that are not strict about it. This is understandable, since they are already 18 years old. So (chesedname) if u want to look at it in a leagal way – they are 18 – and in a religious way, i don’t want to get into an hashkafic talk, but b’kitzur this is what they are doing at this age (the age that usually one has his commen sence) (and other reasons combined, about having an outlet, not doing worse things..), so they wont be so strict on them.April 12, 2010 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #683315
Yes i can see that being a problem, maybe if you have a son in HS or bais medrash and you know of a child that smokes, speak to the rosh yeshiva and make a big deal about it. once the other kids hear the rosh yeshiva didn’t just look away they’ll know it’s not acceptableApril 12, 2010 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #683316
There is no simple way to stop smoking, just as there is no simple way to stop any addiction. And everyone has weaknesses unique to themselves, so let’s correct our own weakness before giving musser to others. There were Rabbonim and Admorim who could not give up the tobacco and paid with sickness and early death. So while smoking may be a harmful and dirty habit, it pales to the damage caused by gambling and other additions which have crept into the frum world.April 13, 2010 2:06 am at 2:06 am #683317
It just happens to be my son is in one of the few yeshivos where the Menahel will throw out any bochur who is caught smoking.April 13, 2010 2:13 am at 2:13 am #683318
I don’t understand how you can say -“it pales to the damage caused by gambling and other additions which have crept into the frum world”. Whatever the damages are, I’m sure smoking causes more damage. Also, people who have acquired these addictions are definitely a very small minority as opposed to the widespread addiction of smoking. Too bad these Rabbonim didn’t live nowadays because now there are meds that can get rid of the physical addiction part of smoking.April 13, 2010 3:08 am at 3:08 am #683319
Health – “bim, I don’t understand how you can say – “Whatever the damages are, I’m sure smoking causes more damage.”
Addictions to, i.e., gambling and drugs are not only harmful to the addict but destroy families as well and the effects are felt for many generations after the damage has been done.April 13, 2010 4:28 am at 4:28 am #683320
Cherrybim -so true and even more so with smoking. Smoking is a tremendous financial burden which strains the family. Also with smoking, the family suffers watching a young member -first suffer with lung cancer or heart disease or COPD and then die from it.April 13, 2010 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #683322
Health – Ask the wife of a gambler or drug addict if given the choice, would she trade her husband’s addiction to smoking instead. We all know the answer.April 15, 2010 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #683323
Cherrybim – Of course she would, but that’s only because people want to get rid of the problems in front of their nose. But as far as the community and it’s leaders are concerned, smoking is much more devastating in the long run. We have to band together to fight this addiction and not sweep it under the rug by pretending it’s not as bad as it really is.April 16, 2010 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #683324
you will never be able to stop something that’s legal. especially as I’ve stated before there are many things worse than smoking!
because eating your steak doesn’t smell or make your teeth yellow doesn’t make it healthier, do you want the community to put pressure on ppl eating steaks?
the alcohol consumption in shuls (for some) is extremely dangerous and stupid, should we ban alcohol in shul??
not helping your wife at home in the long run is dangerous, stupid, and will have huge consequences, should we make a takkana about it? (woman can’t answer that one lol)
enough with the takkanas and pressure for things that are not a lav (and smoking is not a lav, say what you want rav moshe says clearly it’s not) and don’t really affect other ppl!!!
(hmmmm i wonder, with all these posts and editing done by the moderators, how do they go through the day without smoking and drinking????)April 16, 2010 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #683325
“you will never be able to stop something that’s legal. especially as I’ve stated before there are many things worse than smoking! because eating your steak doesn’t smell or make your teeth yellow doesn’t make it healthier, do you want the community to put pressure on ppl eating steaks? the alcohol consumption in shuls (for some) is extremely dangerous and stupid, should we ban alcohol in shul?? not helping your wife at home in the long run is dangerous, stupid, and will have huge consequences, should we make a takkana about it? (woman can’t answer that one lol) enough with the takkanas and pressure for things that are not a lav (and smoking is not a lav, say what you want rav moshe says clearly it’s not) and don’t really affect other ppl!!!
(hmmmm i wonder, with all these posts and editing done by the moderators, how do they go through the day without smoking and drinking????) “
Where to start, where to start…
Point by point – Many things that used to be legal (driving without a seatbelt, riding a bike w/o a helmet,talking on the cellphone while driving, carrying babies in a car without a carseat, buying lots of Claritin D on the same day) were all legal at one time. When it was determined that for the greater good, these things were a hazard, they were made illegal. The fact that there are worse things than smoking (and you are right about that), in no way mitigates the dangers of smoking. It’s not a case of, this is worse than that, so it’s not so bad, so let’s allow it.
Eating a steak and clogging my OWN arteries, is not the same thing as my smoking a cigarette and poisoning the air that you also have to breathe along with my own lungs.
MANY shuls have banned Kiddush Clubs and the serving of alcohol at Shul functions, for the very reasons you cited.
Here is one woman’s answer to your remark about husband’s not helping around the house. They are asking for Sholom Bayis problems, if they truly do not see the relevance of being a true partner in their home. most women nowadays, are forced to work outside the home (even if by choice, they are still contributing to the household income), and a husband who would sit by idly watching his wife do all the shleppy work, is a selfish and self-centered fool. He sets a poor example for his sons, and runs the risk of losing his wife’s respect. A real man respects the work his wife does and shares the burden of the responsibilities with her, especially if he is learning fulltime and SHE is earning, and having babies, and raising kids, and dealing with his family, and trying to do it all (here’s a secret: we CAN’T!!!)
As to the rabbonim who said it was not assur to smoke – given what we know today, I doubt very strongly they would issue the same p’sak, were they still alive. Especially given what we know now about second-hand smoke, I am thinking they would never allow a cigarette in the beis medrash. Those rabbonim who do not agree, might possibly not be as yet in possession of all the facts about nicotine addiction, cancer of the lung, lip, tongue, and gums, as well as stomach and bladder cancer, which have also been found to correlate with heavy smoking. They might not yet be acquainted with the knowledge that smoking seriously elevates one’s blood pressure and heart rate, to unacceptable levels, and will eventually cause stroke and/or heart attack, PARTICULARLY in overweight or sedentary people, who are already at risk because of those two reasons. They also apparently have not yet understood that children are at special risk for developing asthma when one or both parents smoke. The kids never picked up a cigarette, but they have pulmonary problems because their family member smoked. No one wants to say I told you so to someone dying of those conditions. The only remedy is to stop smoking BEFORE it becomes a health emergency for the smoker and for his friends and family.April 16, 2010 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #683326
Chesedname- I know in the frum community they never stop anything that’s legal EG.- they aren’t trying to stop the internet, they didn’t stop a concert, etc… I could go on & on, but YWN would never give me that much space. Comparing smoking to eating steak is ridiculous -eating steak is only dangerous if you over-eat. As far as alcohol consumption, it is only a problem in some shuls mainly in Flatbush. Not worldwide like smoking. As far as I know, the leaders of those shuls are trying to end excess drinking. First of all, there are mainy poskim who say smoking is Ossur period. And even R’ Moshe Z”tl said it was Ossur to start, even though he Mattered to continue. I wouldn’t call this “clearly it’s not”. Also R’ Moshe Z”tl, if we would be alive nowadays might hold it’s Ossur to smoke -being that there are now drugs to get you off the addiction. Also, how can you say smoking doesn’t affect other people? They have proved that second-hand smoke is dangerous. This you don’t even know whether R’ Moshe Z”tl would Mater because they didn’t know this when he was alive. Also, I didn’t call on the Leaders to Assur it completely (Tephasta meruba lo tephasta), just to stop it in Yeshivos!
BTW, I really don’t know anything that is worse than smoking. It causes a slow and painful death by most people.April 19, 2010 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #683327HaLeiViParticipant
Mr. Health, how about asking the wife of a smoker if she would want to trade that for a drug/alcohol addict or gambler?April 19, 2010 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #683328
health and oomis1105 you need a cigarette lol
first I never said rabbonim can’t or won’t try to stop something legal, i said it would never work, like concerts and Internet, did it work? NO I’m on the internet and I’ve been to many concerts since the whole debacle.
as far as stopping it in yeshivas if you read my previous posts i agree 100% my initial comment on smoking was, as long as it’s legal, and not done in a building that I’m in etc… we shouldn’t be knocking what other ppl do.
it’s not that unhealthy for me to walk the streets even though someone was smoking there yesterday.
like i said the smog from cars worries me much much more.
i wouldn’t go to a guy eating 5 slices for lunch and tell him how much of my taxes goes to his health care, or he looks disgusting, it’s his problem, same with smoking as long as they don’t blow smoke in my face, i feel bad that they have that addiction.
if you really think about it, you’ll see we’re on the same page.April 19, 2010 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #683329anonymrsParticipant
i am the wife of a smoker, and i would not trade it for any other addiction. i may not like that my husband smokes, but at least i know this is something that is kept out of my house. who can say if it would be like that with other addictions?
also, again as the wife of a smoker, i know that you can NOT force someone to stop smoking. when and if they are ready, you can be there to help them through it, because they will definitely need a lot of support. but thats about it. guilt tripping them will only get you upset, and thats about it.April 19, 2010 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #683330
“i am the wife of a smoker, and i would not trade it for any other addiction.”
It is not an either/or situation. The fact is that smoking is an addiction that PHYSICALLY affects the rest of the people around the smoker and not just the smoker himself. As long as he is not driving and is not acting out with other people, the addictive drinker or drug user is only hurting his own liver and brain cells. The smoker is hurting MY breathing, his children are several times more likely to have respiratory illnesses throughout childhood than other children, and the dangers of second-hand smoke should not be pooh-poohed. A smoker will ALWAYS find a rationale for his (or her) habit. I don’t allow ANYONE to smoke in my home, much less my immediate family members. The first time a hired man who was doing work in my house took out a cigarette, I politely asked him to take it outside. It was raining, so he opted to refrain from smoking.
EDITEDApril 19, 2010 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #683331modernorthodoxMember
As long as he is not driving and is not acting out with other people, the addictive drinker or drug user is only hurting his own liver and brain cells.
That’s true, when a drunk is not driving and killing and maiming people, and abusing his wife and children and losing his job he is not harming anyone but himself.
And when the drug addict is not stealing and killing to support his habit, he’s hurting no one but himself.April 20, 2010 12:07 am at 12:07 am #683332
what is your problem?? anonymrs wrote “i am the wife of a smoker, and i would not trade it for any other addiction”, how can you argue with someones opinion???
you write “It is not an either/or situation.” yes it is, if you look back the topic was which is a better vice, which means a person would have one vice.
on a side note how does smoking effect you if no one smokes in your house or near you? if levy is smoking now does it affect you? i could understand being forceful if someone smoked in front of you, but in the privacy of their home, it doesn’t affect you, get over it.April 20, 2010 3:40 am at 3:40 am #683333
I watched my uncle die of emphysema a long and very painful death where he literally near-suffocated with every breath he took until he finally mercifully died. He never smoked near me. I came home from a job every day, needing to have my clothing washed after only one wearing, because the stench of smoke from my office and the people around me seeped into it. I saw my friend’s baby have one upper respiratory infection after another, until her husband FINALLY quit smoking. I had more than one dinner out ruined before the no smoking/separate smoking area rules went into effect in public places, by being stuck near someone who puffed away while I was trying to enjoy a rare meal out with my husband. You see the problem with smokers is that they really do tend to believe that smoking is their absolute right NO MATTER WHAT. If they would wear a glass enclosure over their heads so that the only one exposed to their habit was themselves, I would have no problem with it at all.
BTW, I thought the topic was “a seemingly simple way to stop smoking” – not, “which of several stupid human vices is the worst.” They are ALL bad. And I thank modernorthodox for reminding me to what extent those other behaviors could possibly impact on innocent victims. I repeat – they are all bad. And certainly no responsible Rav would recommend that anyone indulge in any of them .April 20, 2010 4:22 am at 4:22 am #683334
It’s true -you can’t force people to stop smoking as a spouse, but I get the impression you aren’t even encouraging him. “when and if they are ready, you can be there to help them through it,” This sounds like you are waiting for him to make the first move. This is probably a bad idea, being that this might be years from now and at that time he might already have a chronic disease chas’vs. The best thing is to encourage him now to quit. Tell him to go to his doctor, as there are many medications to help people quit smoking.
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