A Third of Israeli Youth Don’t Enlist in the IDF

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  • #1824023

    Joseph
    Participant

    JPost 1/19/20 – New data shows that 32.9% do not enlist at all and another 15% do not complete their military service.

    Nearly half of Israeli youth do not start or finish their military service, with at least a third of males getting exemptions for mental health reasons.

    The alarming figure based on new IDF data, first published by Yediot Aharonot, shows that 32.9% of men will receive an exemption from the military. With an average of 15% dropping out during their service, nearly half of Israeli men (47.9%) do not complete their military service.

    The disturbing trend is even more severe for women, with 44.3% being exempt from their military service.

    According to the report in Yediot, the figures show a clear downward trend in IDF enlistment among both sexes. For example, in 2007 a quarter of males did not enlist in the Israeli military, and in 2015 the figure rose to 26.9% for men and 30% last year.

    In addition to the skyrocketing increase in medical exemptions for mental health reasons, the general recruitment figures for combat units have also seen a general decline over the past decade, from four-fifths (81%) in 2011 to less than two-thirds (65%) in 2018.

    While the IDF’s Manpower Directorate has pointed to a range of circumstances behind the increase in exemptions, a large number are said to be because of recruits coming in with medical documents claiming they have mental illnesses preventing them from serving.

    But the directorate is said to believe that the trend is not due to a sudden increase in mental illness, but rather to a decrease in motivation to serve in the military leading youth to fake mental illness in order to avoid military service.

    Exemption from military service in Israel is covered by the Israeli Security Service Law, which allows recruits to be exempt on grounds of medical or psychological reasons as well as pregnancy, religion (women and studying in a yeshiva), as well as conscientious objection.

    #1824102

    Joseph
    Participant

    And the Zionists are deadset in forcibly drafting Bnei Torah who don’t want to join their force infamous for immorality rather than focus on the 33% of secular skipping the draft.

    #1824123

    CTRebbe
    Participant

    1. A significant factor of increased exemptions is likely due to the population growth of the chareidim vs. chilonim.
    2. Perhaps the declining interest in the secular youth enlisting is also due in large part to the chareidim. They may think “If they don’t serve, why should I?”

    3. Do you really want an 18 year with mental health issues to be walking around the streets of Israel 24/7 with a loaded assault rifle?

    4. Why does it not bother you that there is an increase in mental health issues amongst your brethren?

    5. It looks like the 33% includes the chareidim.

    6. Dou you really think that they would just let people off bec. they claim to have mental health issues without a letter from a mental health professional?

    7. Isn’t this more of a reason for chereidim to look for viable ways to work with the IDF to join the ranks of nachal chereidi if the secular will not join? If the chareidim will eventually become the majority in Israel they can’t realistically expect a minority of secular to be the only ones serving.

    Stop making this an us vs. them issue without looking for for ways to address the problem.

    #1824174

    klugeryid
    Participant

    Aren’t all people who choose to sit and learn, automatically lunatic according to the Zionists ET Al?

    #1824193

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    “Aren’t all people who choose to sit and learn, automatically lunatic according to the Zionists”

    NO. Only those who claim they have no obligation to perform ANY type of alternative public service. They are no better than the privileged secular brats who can afford to retain a psychologist to support a fake clam of mental illness to avoid the draft.

    #1824221

    1
    Participant

    No one has to do any service for the Zionist government

    #1824223

    Phil
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Your lame topic deliberately omitted the following from that JPost article:

    “In November, a report by The Jerusalem Post’s sister publication Maariv found that, relative to the number of potential secular recruits being exempt from the military due to mental illness, the number of ultra-Orthodox (haredim) being exempted is higher.

    For example, the data for two years show that while the number of mental illness-related exemptions among secular citizens rose 29% to 2,097 exemptions per year from 1,625, it rose 49% to 391 among religious men from 262.

    According to the data, of the 4,500 who received exemptions, 44.7% were haredim, 46.6% secular and another 8.7% are religious Zionist.”

    So aside from Haredim receiving automatic exemptions to learn, they have also claimed mental health exemptions for the past two years at even higher rates than the secular are. Yet, you still bash the Zionists; what a sick, nasty troll.

    #1824234

    chash
    Participant

    @phil. he isnt saying that zionists are bad for claiming to be mentally ill. He is saying that their choice of whom to pursue is indicative of their intentions. Hence no reason to include that bit, as it doesnt pertain to the conversation.
    @gadolhadorah
    if your jewish than you should follow its code of law. and in the jewish code of law [more commonly known as shukhan arukh] it states that those whose occupation is torah study are exempt from, what we would term, “community service”. So in essence, you are the one who’s entitled and believe no one can have a loftier purpose than yourself, and therefore should obviously be subject to the same standards as the common folk. [i.e. yourself].
    @ CTRebbe
    1. you missed the point.
    2. so what?
    3. you really missed the point
    4. putting words in peoples mouths isnt cool.
    5. isnt that the same as #1? anyway, you missed the point.
    6. yes. and no. depends when and who. also the rise in exemptions should match the actual statistics of MH in the state.
    7. no. the one who made the mess should clean it.
    news flash, it aint us who made it a vs. them issue.

    #1824233

    user176
    Participant

    I’m more interested in hard numbers rather than percentages. The population is growing. A growing percentage of people avoiding the draft doesn’t mean a shrinking army.

    #1824239

    Phil
    Participant

    chash,

    Joseph cherry-picked the article in a lame attempt to prove the secular are receiving deferments the Charedim aren’t. In reality, the Charedim, who already receive deferments to learn, are now using the mental health exemption at an even higher rate than the secular are.

    Gross intellectual dishonesty on the part of our resident troll but we’ve come to expect that.

    #1824276

    Jerusalem reader
    Participant

    CTReebbe wrote: “If the chareidim will eventually become the majority in Israel they can’t realistically expect a minority of secular to be the only ones serving.”
    So a minority of people who actually want to serve in the army can’t make up the army?
    How about in the US: 0.4 percent of the American population is active military personnel.
    Why aren’t you serving in the US Army? Do you expect to laze around while just 0.4 percent of the American people are bearing YOUR burden?
    Seriously, the Israeli army needs to get with the times and become a volunteer army that enlists only people who want to enlist, instead of a bunch of mostly unmotivated recruits who bloat the army with unneeded jobnik positions. And by the way, I say this as someone whose son served in the army.

    #1824279

    klugeryid
    Participant

    GH
    OK say it your way. Makes it even simpler.
    Those charaydim who choose to serve, the medina (sic) should have no issue with.
    And those who claim complete exemption, are by your own definition mentally unfit to serve.
    Comes out 100 % of charadim who are fit to serve, do so.
    So what’s the big issue about charadim not serving???

    #1824403

    1
    Participant

    It’s pretty well-established that Israeli Youth go to Europe or US to avoid service.

    #1824303

    akuperma
    Participant

    1. “enlist” implies “volunteer”. Most Israel youth are “conscripted”. The only time someone enlists is when they are exempt, such as the case with most Arabs who serve in the IDF.

    2. The real number that matters is the extent those conscripted volunteer for combat units (e.g. Golani, Air Force, etc.), rather than aspire to be “jobniks”. If conscription was abolished (as virtually ever major democracy has done), it is reasonable to assume that those who choose to be in combat units would still “enlist” (and presumbably would be paid serious wages to do so). Also, a volunteer army would be forced to offer accommodation to frum soldiers to get them to sign up, rather than doing so begrudgingly as is the case today.

    3. Israel does not allow conscientious objection (if so, non-zionist hareidim would be exempt) leading to the charade of liberal yeshiva deferments. This is also a problem for non-religious Jews who are also conscientious objectors who jump through hoops to avoid military service. Switching to a western-style professional army would solve the problem.

    #1824446

    mentsch1
    Participant

    There is nothing new here
    Sorry for those that want to hate on Joseph but this statistic is one of many reasons the IDF has been considering going the way of a Volunteer army, similar to Britian and the US.
    The argument for a volunteer army
    1) Quality over quantity, the recruits want to be there and studies show that the british and us armies got better bc they were able to get more out of their volunteers
    2) retention; a country spends a lot training a recruit and they dont want to lose that recruit after 2 years
    3) specialization; modern armies are much more specialized and it takes longer to train a good soldier
    4) stop all the fighting over exemptions
    5) the Israel army doesn’t even have the capability of absorbing all potential recruits

    the following comes from wiki (and the footnoted source)
    The IDF has reportedly concluded that it will, at some point in the future, have to end conscription in favor of an all-volunteer force. Reasons include growing unpopularity of military service among Israeli youth, a growth in draft-dodging, and budgetary constraints that would prevent the IDF from conscripting all those eligible even if draft-dodging were not an issue. Israel is reportedly studying how the United States and European nations ended conscription and transitioned to all-volunteer forces, for a possible future transition.[15]

    #1824418

    Jerusalem reader
    Participant

    CTRebbe wrote: “If the chareidim will eventually become the majority in Israel they can’t realistically expect a minority of secular to be the only ones serving.”
    So a minority of people who actually want to serve in the army can’t make up the army?
    How about in the US: 0.4 percent of the American population is active military personnel.
    Why aren’t you serving in the US Army? Do you expect to laze around while just 0.4 percent of the American people are bearing YOUR burden?
    Seriously, the Israeli army needs to get with the times and become a volunteer army that enlists only people who want to enlist, instead of a bunch of mostly unmotivated recruits who bloat the army with unneeded jobnik positions. And by the way, I say this as someone whose son served in the army.

    #1824509

    CTRebbe
    Participant

    Israel is very different from the US and all other countries that have volunteer armies. The US population is 331 million and Israel is 9 million of which only 3/4 are Jewish. The natural threat to Israel of its neighbors is not an issue to be minimized. The only reason why Ben Gurion initially agreed to the deferment for yeshiva students is bec. it was a minute number (400). Think one corner of the Mir. Since then it has increased 15,000%.
    To make the issue of the army as “they just want to shmadzach our shevet Levi” is not accurate. It is not realistic to expect the burden of conscription to be placed on a population that will eventually become the minority. I think the issue needs to be addressed from all sides without the basis of “that is the way it has always been done”.
    True, I did not sign up for the US armed forces but that is bec. they can manage without me as we see. If that reality changed and it became necessary to conscript I would not fight it. I would not want to go but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I don’t like to pay taxes or jury duty and try to get out of both in any legal way. But I also realize that there are some things that are unavoidable. I don’t look at the the IRS as a bunch of Nazis trying to take away my religious freedom.

    #1824548

    Joseph
    Participant

    “True, I did not sign up for the US armed forces but that is bec. they can manage without me as we see. ”

    The Israeli army can manage without the chareidim, as we see. In fact, the Israeli army already has too many conscripts as it is, and does know what to do with all the extra unneeded personnel the army has.

    The ONLY reason they want to draft the chareidim is to shmad us. Nothing else. They certainly don’t need us for military purposes.

    #1824654

    CTRebbe
    Participant

    Joe- What is your basis to say that the Israeli army has too many conscripts?

    #1824680

    Joseph
    Participant

    CTR – Israeli military top brass has long gone on the record as saying that the Israeli army has too many conscripts as it is.

    #1824710

    Avi K
    Participant

    Rav Eliezer Melamed recently wrote an essay on serving in the IDF. It appears on Arutz 7 English site under the title “Claims against IDF service”.

    #1824782

    CTRebbe
    Participant

    Joe- I asked you for a source. Where is this record? I am not arguing with you I just want to learn more (Isn’t that why everyone checks out the YWN coffee room?)

    The article from Rav Melamed is fascinating. The man writing the letter seems to be discussing his personal experience which would seem to be a very credible source. However Rav Melamed seems to shoot him down by saying “As for the allegations themselves, at least half of them are inaccurate, and the rest are only a half, a third, or a quarter accurate”

    #1824941

    mentsch1
    Participant

    CTRebbe
    I also read the article. Let me ask you this, If even a fraction is correct would you advise your son to enlist?
    If my son came to me to ask if he should take a job (parnassah, also a mitzvah) and that job involved numerous tznius and ethical issues, I would tell him to run in the other direction.
    There was a fascinating article in hamodia two weeks ago. The author had a meeting with an israeli sociologist a few decades ago. This secular israeli was working on a solution for integrating charedim into the work force. He was asked by the author (and I am paraphrasing here), “are you seeking to do it in a way that respects charedi philosiphy? or are you really just trying to get charedim to be more like those israeli’s you consider normal?”
    Bottom line; the israeli government has from its inception used the army as a means of “mainstreaming” recruits to be their ideal. and their ideal is a leftist westerner, not a religious “fanatic”. Which frum father would risk that for their children?
    If all they really cared about was having more soldiers, they would leave the training to real charedim and not interfere with a charedi wing of the army (as they do consistently)

    #1825277

    MDG
    Participant

    ” New data shows that 32.9% do not enlist at all ….”

    Notice it doesn’t specify demographics. It includes everyone.
    Chareidim and Arabs make up most of that 33 percent.

    I heard a few years ago that 90 percent of secular Israeli Jews go to the army.

    #1825320

    Joseph
    Participant

    MDG: Read the second paragraph: “at least a third of males getting exemptions for mental health reasons…”

    Chareidim and Israeli Arabs aren’t the ones getting mental health exemptions. They get exemptions with another classification. So even more than 1 in 3 secular Israelis are getting off with a mental health excuse. In fact chareidim and Israeli Arabs are too low a percentage of the population to even reach a majority of the third of Israelis using this type of exemption.

    #1825337

    Phil
    Participant

    “Chareidim and Israeli Arabs aren’t the ones getting mental health exemptions.”

    MDG,

    Don’t pay any attention to the nasty troll who quoted the JPost article and deliberately omitted:

    “In November, a report by The Jerusalem Post’s sister publication Maariv found that, relative to the number of potential secular recruits being exempt from the military due to mental illness, the number of ultra-Orthodox (haredim) being exempted is higher.

    For example, the data for two years show that while the number of mental illness-related exemptions among secular citizens rose 29% to 2,097 exemptions per year from 1,625, it rose 49% to 391 among religious men from 262.

    According to the data, of the 4,500 who received exemptions, 44.7% were haredim, 46.6% secular and another 8.7% are religious Zionist.”

    Despite his habitual lying, mental health exemptions for the Charedim have risen at a much higher rate than for the secular.

    #1825389

    mentsch1
    Participant

    Phil
    How do your statements change the discussion?
    Ultimately this boils down to whether or not the army is a place for frum kids. And it’s not.
    If you want to argue it’s a mitzvah and accommodations need to be made, I will argue that’s nonsense.
    If you want to argue there is an option called nachal chareidi, I will tell you to google a cross currents article called “nachal charedi – a reality check”
    If the army was serious about wanting charedim and respecting their needs/culture they could create an entirely separate division. But what they are really interested in is assimilation.

    #1825429

    Phil
    Participant

    mentsch1,

    I’m not advocating for or against IDF service. I take issue with our resident, nasty troll quoting the JPost article to claim the secular are getting mental health exemptions that the Charedim aren’t and deliberately omitting the paragraph that states they are actually getting those exemptions in higher rates than the secular are.

    I’m simply calling out the troll for his dishonesty and lies.

    #1825626

    Joseph
    Participant

    Phil, you need to improve your reading comprehension. It clearly states that while the chareidim, on a whole, receive a greater level of military exemptions (a point that is obvious), the chareidim are being exempted for Torah learning and not the mental health exemptions that a third of secular Israelis are getting military exemptions for.

    #1825727

    Phil
    Participant

    Joseph,

    You need to stop your habitual lying and omission of facts that don’t agree with your twisted worldview. The JPost article on IDF mental health exemptions specifically states:

    “For example, the data for two years show that while the number of mental illness-related exemptions among secular citizens rose 29% to 2,097 exemptions per year from 1,625, it rose 49% to 391 among religious men from 262.”

    Charedim, who already receive exemptions to learn have also received 391 mental heath exemptions per year.

    #1825825

    Joseph
    Participant

    Philly, you’re again mixing two different types of exemptions.

    #1825826

    MDG
    Participant

    “Chareidim and Israeli Arabs aren’t the ones getting mental health exemptions.”

    I have a chareidi cousin who has mentioned getting a mental exemption for her son(s).

    #1825990

    Phil
    Participant

    Josephine,

    The truth really hurts, doesn’t it? You quoted an article from JPost, deliberately omitted the part that disagrees with your preconceived notions and got caught red-handed. Do you also behave so dishonestly in the public school where you supposedly work as an aid?

    #1826000

    yehudayona
    Participant

    Phil, while it’s obvious that Joseph is doing what he usually does, the number of chareidim getting mental health exemptions (391) is much smaller than the number of chilonim getting them (2097). Yes, the growth rate is greater, but it’s starting from a smaller base.

    #1826081

    Phil
    Participant

    yehudayona,

    Agreed; I simply couldn’t let the troll get away with an outright lie that Charedim aren’t receiving mental health exemptions.

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