May 5, 2014 4:06 am at 4:06 am #612695ymbyiMember
I served in the IDF as did my brother and all my native born Israeli male cousins. I lost a commander and I understand from the depths the pain that hundreds of thousands are going through today. You know my cousin just had a baby boy yesterday and we know despite the tremendous joy that in 18 years this baby will put a gun on his back and protect each and everyone of us.
I see a lot of people on this board making lite of Yom HaZikaron, well I guess until you or your son go and fight this ongoing Milchemet Mitzvah you will never understand.
Until you have seen good men fall, so that others may sit in peace you have no idea.
I do not care what you do on Yom Ha’Atzmaut,but if you live outside of Israel please take 5 minutes today and think of the amazing mesirut nefesh people had so you could get on a plane and land there safely. So that you can freely and safely daven at the Kotel and tour this amazing and holy land that as Tehiilim says “Hashem has chosen and His dwelling place”.
Thank you,May 5, 2014 10:43 am at 10:43 am #1013675☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Where do you see a lot of people on this site making light of Yom Hazikaron?May 5, 2014 11:44 am at 11:44 am #1013676TheGoqParticipant
Very well said ymbyi.May 5, 2014 1:29 pm at 1:29 pm #1013677akupermaParticipant
Jews do not honor the dead with military ceremonies. We do not stand at attention or play sirens or bugles or drums. We do not wear military uniforms or display weapons or stand in formation. Those are methods that goyim use to honor their dead. By imitating the way the goyim’s armies honor their dead, the zionists are emphasizing that the fallen soldiers fell fighting to establish a goyish state in Eretz Yisrael.
Jews honor the dead by learning mishnayos, davening, giving tsadaka, etc. That the Israelis do not, for the most part, engage in such behaviors is what is dishonoring the dead soldiers.May 5, 2014 1:56 pm at 1:56 pm #1013678ymbyiMember
-Jews do honor the dead with Hespedim.
-Jews do honor the dead with silence as Aharon HaCohen did after his sons perished and as chazal say “the comfort is in the silence” the siren just calls for that silence.
In addition every ceremony includes tefilot and tehillim
If this is not honoring the dead I do not know what isMay 5, 2014 2:20 pm at 2:20 pm #1013679stopthemesiraParticipant
Akuperma, there are MANY people in E”Y and around the world who have increased their learning and Tzedaka on behalf of the Holy neshamos who have given their lives for their fellow Jews. What have you done for the soldiers today?May 5, 2014 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #1013680
Even sadder to see these photos of people devoid of anything Jewish standing at the holiest Jewish site dressed clearly against the way hashem wants them to be dressed, just imagine going to any other religious site dressed this way.
These people Reform-Mizrachi-Zioni believe Yom Hazikoren and Atzmot are more sacred then Yom Kipur and any other Jewish day.
You want to really honor the fallen 23,000 plus soldiers gave their lives? learn some Mishnayos and say some Tehlim and give some tzedakah.May 5, 2014 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #1013681
REALLY want to honor those who gave their lives, stop maligning them and the communities they came from. It bothers you they dont (cant) learn mishnayos, then stop whining about it online and head out to their neighborhoods and reach out to them and teach them a mishna or two.May 6, 2014 12:00 am at 12:00 am #1013687
Take it to a different thread.May 6, 2014 1:16 am at 1:16 am #1013688smile4lifeParticipant
Getzel – I can’t believe you’d even consider comparing mizrachi to reform. I have never met any frum person who believes that yom haatzmaut is more holy than yom kippur (and I probably know many more mizrachi Jews than you do). Granted, yom hazikaron was established by the secular zionists, but there’s a problem if that fact impedes you from giving even minimal respect to the day considering that the large majority of Israel recognizes it as a memorial day for the fallen soldiers and terror victims. How could you possibly not take a moment to respect and remember those who gave their lives for Eretz Yisrael and those who died al kiddush Hashem?May 6, 2014 2:07 am at 2:07 am #1013689👑RebYidd23Participant
Remember them properly, not as dead soldiers, but as people who lived.May 6, 2014 3:07 am at 3:07 am #1013690one who says hi says hiMember
akuperma is right the pusuk says “one should not go in the ways of the goyim”May 6, 2014 3:56 am at 3:56 am #1013691147Participant
The shameful creatures at Kikar SHabbos who had blatant disrespect for the moment of silence, require a strong lesson in “Poschim BiChevod HoAchsanya” and wake up to reality that if it weren’t for the Chessed of the 66 year old Medinah, many of them would be tossed around 3rd world countries unable to come & live in Eretz Yisroel, as was case during WW2.
Wishing everyone:- Yom haAtzma’ut Sameach.May 6, 2014 4:59 am at 4:59 am #1013693
It was Rav Aharon Kotler (and perhaps others) who made that comparison.
Regarding your post, where is there a mitzva to “give one’s life for Eretz Yisrael”, meaning, presumably, for the State of Israel, as the land was obviously in no danger?
If you mean that they gave their lives so that people’s lives should be saved, then why not say that?
Regardless, we have our own ways to show respect for those who have passed on, as outlined in the Torah.May 6, 2014 5:16 am at 5:16 am #1013694
Honestly is this really want the most disgusting things you have seen? Is this really not moral? This really not Jewish?
Honestly any Orthodox Jew would tell you that the secular Jew driving his car down Jaffa road on Shabbat is much more a disgusting scene then disobeying the silly foolish babyish law.
Do you honestly think that this is the proper way to remember the fallen soldiers?!
The Soldiers are up in heaven and are looking down at the foolishness and silliness of things that are being done in their memory.
They are probably turning over in their graves and saying we sacrificed our lives fir the name of God. Now that we are in heaven near God do you realize that the only thing worth doing are good deeds and acts of kindness? not standing like a statue or an idiot for some silly siren!
Yes I am proud of the few still sane people living in Israel that disregard the disrespect that is done to the fallen Jewish soldiers who definitely would not want them standing like statues in their memory.May 6, 2014 5:17 am at 5:17 am #1013695
The reason the British blocked immigration into Palestine during WW II is due to the Zionists fighting with the Arabs so the British didn’t want the Arabs to get even more violent.
If it weren’t for the treachery of the Zionists before, during and after WW II then those Jews might never have been tossed around those third-world countries to begin with. And some of the ones that were might have survived had the Zionists not lobbied governments for Palestine or nothing. Even the Zionists admit that Zionism was (and is, of course) above all, including being above saving Jews in Europe and they put their money where their mouth was.
The Satmar Rav said early in the century that it would be a miracle of tragedy did not befall the Jews in Europe because of what the Zionists are doing.
He also compared the Zionists to an arsonist who sets fire to a house and then runs to get a hose.
Read the despicable lies that Zionists said about Jews in an attempt to change the Jew into a new Goy Hebrew Zionist.May 6, 2014 10:45 am at 10:45 am #1013696Avi KParticipant
1. Akuperma, there is no issur of behukoteihem where there is a logical reason for the practice, as with doctors wearing white coats to identify themselves as doctors (*Rema Yoreh Deah 178:1).
a. Rav Kotler also called a certain rav an am ha’aretz. When the Satmar rebbe became upset he was calmed down by someone who told him that Rav Kotler said “am ha’aretz like he said “apikoros”.
b. How do you show your respect for those who have fallen? Do you even say the mi sheberach for those who baruch Hashem are still alive (Akuperma is also invited to answer)?May 6, 2014 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #1013697rcParticipant
i am no Gaon, but the way i see it is, you’re in Galus. deal with it. Yes, the ceremonial part is a joke, and looks like one quite frankly, since its not a Jewish thing, they dont pull it off well, none the less, they are (dissapointingly) trying to be “like the nations of the world”, but since they have introduced this :moment of silence thing, it behooves all of us to respect it. I have no problem with chareidim living and acting however they please BUT if you take money and services from the medinah, then guess what, you’re meshubid to them, so play the game, or become self sufficient!!May 6, 2014 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #1013698
Meshubid? They force you to pay taxes so you can take back the services I believe that is a fair deal, but that does not mean that you have to agree to all their games and tricks and nonsense.May 6, 2014 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #1013699
I think the salient question here is, not what did the gedolim say 30,40 or 50 years ago about the medina, zionism etc, but, what would those gedolim say regarding standing still during the moment of silence while in a public place.May 6, 2014 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #1013700Sam2Participant
Getzel: Let me try to explain the basic logic behind it. What do people do when they hear of tragedy. Imagine, Chas V’shalom, someone receiving a phone call that a loved one just tragically passed away in the prime of life in a crazy accident. Is that person’s response to immediately reach into a pocket to give Tzedaka? Do they immediately start learning Mishnayos? No. They are shocked, and silent, and immediately reflect on the person and what they just lost.
Whether it is a Jewish concept or not, that is what the silence is meant to recreate. We are all imagining ourselves in that immediate state of shock over all of the loved ones that Klal Yisrael has lost. It is a way of doing exactly that. Remembering. It may not be the best way to remember someone. Most Frum people will say that it probably isn’t. But it has a point and a meaning. And, once it was determined by the country that that is a way to do it, it is incredibly disrespectful to ignore it.
Israel creates a huge Kiddush Hashem every year when videos on the internet go up of major highways just stopping on Yom HaShoah and Yom Hazikaron. It’s the only place in the world to show such incredible respect to those we love. And while you think it might be silly, it absolutely is respectful. And intentionally ignoring that is both disrespectful and therefore a Chillul Hashem. It’s fine to debate whether or not this is the right way to show respect every other day of the year. But, L’ma’aseh, since this is the way that people attempt to show respect, ignoring it is a blatant disrespect that just isn’t worth it.May 6, 2014 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #1013701
I always thought memorial day was about sales, afternoon baseball and a barbecue.May 6, 2014 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #1013702GG yekkeMember
Avi K: in GGBH the rov goes to the bimah every shabbos after leining and holds the sefer torah and makes a mi sheberach for the Queen and another mi shebeirach for ‘Acheinu yoishvei eretz yisrael…’ but nothing extra was done this week more than any othersMay 6, 2014 7:31 pm at 7:31 pm #1013703
Sam I hear youMay 7, 2014 1:51 am at 1:51 am #1013704
a. So, taking your point to its logical conclusion, RAK’s sefarim and everything else in his life are all not worth anything because of your story. After all, it must have been exaggerated or lav davka, or whatever implication you take from your allege story.
RAK stated clearly that, at its essence, MO is the same as Conservative and Reform. There is no reason to believe he intended “lav davka” here, nor is there a logical “lav davka” alternative, even if your story were true, accurate, etc.
While on that topic, he also said that Rabbi JBS was “machariv America”, as I understand that quote. That could be argued as not literally “destroyed America”.May 7, 2014 1:54 am at 1:54 am #1013705
b. Israeli Jews who have passed on would, presumably, be included in the generic Yizkor/Keil Maleis just like all other Jews from anywhere else who have passed on.
For MiSheBeirachs, too, please cite one halachic reason that Jews in E”Y are more eligible than others to receive a special bracha just for them.
We daven at least twice a week “Acheinu kol beis yisrael haNisunim baTzara uVaShivya…HaMakom yiRacheim aleihem….” and (non-“MO”) shuls and yeshivos across the world daven for our brethren in E”Y daily if not more by reciting tehillim after davening.
not necessary for your point
Incidentally, the prayers invented by the Zionists are, of course, also problematic in their particular wording, so those are anyways non-starters. We obviously have no need for idolatrous (per our gedolim) add-ons to our tefillos.
What you mean to imply is why people don’t accept the A”Z of Zionism that “MO/RZ” have grafted onto, lihavdil, our holy Torah. The obvious answer is that the gedolim strictly forbade this deviancy in the strongest terms.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.