February 5, 2024 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #2258888lakewhutParticipant
Not everyone functions well in a 3 seder system. A lot of bachurim attend 1 seder consistently and not always Minyan. It should be ok for a bachur to work or pursue a degree that will help him support his family. The kumzits is nice the trips around Israel are nice but these are temporary things that don’t stick once they have to be in the real world.February 5, 2024 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #2258979The little I knowParticipant
Agreed. Every Bochur should be known well enough by his Rosh Hayeshiva/Mashgiach to be able to guide him to advance in ways that create security for him. Working is clear as a Torah value, and the preoccupation with the “learning boy” is not the Torah ideal. There are plenty of bochurim who are successful in their learning, and are also motivated to pursue it. They should be bentched with lots of hatzlocho in their venture. There are also many who cannot find success that way. And they should be supported in their pursuit of a career. If the community rejects them as misfits, they are more apt to abandon a lot. If we encourage their pursuit of their career as shomrei mitzvos, we will see the fruits of that.
Every Baal Haboss should be koveya ittim, and should value Torah. They should never be told that their choice of a career means they have no connection to Torah. This issue has graced the pages of the CR for years. I am convinced that I am correct, but I always encounter naysayers.
One quote is the gemora that Rebbi Nehoro’i said, “אין אני מלמד את בני אלא תורה.” This is then interpreted as if he was disagreeing with the other tanaim who addressed learning a trade. Not at all. The true pshat is that he knew his son well enough to know that the full time learning was appropriate for him. Note that he never instructed the others to demand that of their sons.
There may be things worth stigmatizing someone about. This isn’t it.February 5, 2024 10:31 pm at 10:31 pm #2258994ujmParticipant
What on earth are you ranting about? What kumzits? What trips to Israel? What stigmatization?
And what excuse does any bochur have to be missing minyanim?
There’s lots and lots and lots of working baalei batim, in case you just landed from Mars and never noticed. No one is stigmatizing those that had gotten a degree or decided to become a working stiff. Last I noticed many many people respect folks in our community who are accountants, bankers, candle stick makers, open a grocery, deal in real estate, computer programmers, sales and manafacturing.
The Agudah long has been offering COPE and PCS. There are other similar services in our communities. There has never been any shame associated with this or with working. Who else is paying Yeshiva tuitions, building Shuls, Butei Medrashim, Chesed organizations (Hatzalah, Bikur Cholims, health organizations, gemachs, etc.)?
Many frum single girls look for working boys.
What planet are you on?February 6, 2024 7:48 am at 7:48 am #2259011Sam KleinParticipant
My friend from England who I recently spoke told me that he still keeps only to his 2 pesach sedarim over the entire year and still has not changed even many years later when I recently spoke to him and he told me that he works hard for his family and only twice a year together with his wife and children has his 2 pesach sedarim but he can’t have a seder every day.
I tried to convince him to try even once a week on shabbos but he said he’s too tired from a full week of work by then.February 7, 2024 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #2259618KuvultParticipant
Many girls will date a working boy. But they will only say yes if he can show he has at least $2 million dollars in the bank.February 7, 2024 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #2259708ujmParticipant
Kuvult: You really think girls are so vain?February 7, 2024 10:31 pm at 10:31 pm #2259717Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
There is a hiluk that many in shidduch business do not seem to pay attention to – earning parnasa v. doing something in your life. There are lots of occupations where the only outcome seems to be financial v. others where one heals people, builds things, invents, teaches.
It is a big difference whether a husband (or wife also) spends 6-10 hours a day focused just on “parnasah” and his real “life” is in the remaining several hours between parnasah and shloffen that he needs to subdivide between learning, wife, children, YWN OR he spends whole day being productive and performing mitzvos. Of course, attitude may change occupation between these 2 categories. Probably R Miller, not sure, suggests for a woman to think that she is not just washing dishes, but works on sholom bayis. Same thing, a doctor may be thinking about how much he charges for the surgery or how he is saving a human life. Same for a melamed …February 7, 2024 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #2259718Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
>> he has at least $2 million dollars in
> really think girls are so vain?
He thinks girls are uneducated and are not indexing for inflation.
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