About Purim I do shudder

Home Forums Yom Tov Yom Kippur About Purim I do shudder

Viewing 32 posts - 1 through 32 (of 32 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1692384

    Why are there signs and ads all over the place saying how people shouldn’t drink, and that the mitzva can be done in other ways such as by drinking a little and going to sleep, and that this is how the poskim say to do it? Everyone knows that the ikkur mitzva is to drink Ad D’lo Yoda and that there are heterim if you can’t handle it. Since when do we encourage people to be mekayem mitzvos bidieved?

    #1692481

    Joseph
    Participant

    Imagine if there were ads encouraging folks to eat Cholov Stam.

    No one’s telling anyone not to eat Cholov Stam. But if someone people are makpid on Cholov Yisroel why would you try to entice them to change?

    Or to be more neutral, if some people don’t wear Tefilin on chol hamoed, why would anyone put out advertisements encouraging them to change and start wearing Tefilin on chol hamoed?

    Allow people to follow their shittas and their rabbonim’s and Roshei Yeshiva’s shittas without trying to get them to change.

    And make no mistake about it, there are many Gedolim and Rabbonim and Poskim and Roshei Yeshivos who are on the record as holding that the ikkur mitzvah regarding ad dlo yoda on Purim is to l’chatchilla actually get completely shikur. In the very basic sense of getting very drunk. It is a 100% valid and adhered to shitta that many of us can testify our Roshei Yeshivos and Rabbonim insisted on for Purim. Anyone who denies this is either ignorant or untruthful.

    #1692487

    1
    Participant

    I think some of it comes from people who aren’t proud to be Jewish

    #1692492

    Brooklyn Yenta
    Participant

    I agree
    That is why I am makpid to give all boys who enter my house at least one shot of whiskey. Assuming they are above the age of 13 and thus m’chuyuv in the mitzva(no underage drinking allowed in my house)

    #1692518

    avreichamshlomo
    Participant

    Refuah sheleimah to your fractured mind

    #1692519

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Its sad each year to read the same mindless posts regarding drinking on Purim and even total inebriation is a big mitzvah…..coming from the resident apikores, you can forego the usual admonitions as to why I am here on a “Yeshivish” website posting such kefirah. Alas, those who would encourage modest drinking within careful limits seem to fade into the woodwork and allow those who would encourage “getting completely drunk” to write off any horrific auto/pedestrian deaths or injuries resulting from DWI or WWI (walking while intoxicated) as collateral damage to the obligation to drink to excess.

    #1692507

    jdb
    Participant

    Rabbosai, enough! There are gedolei poskim who discourage excessive drinking, let’s remember who we are!

    The reason many rabbanim today discourage excessive drinking on Purim is because there are many, many communities where people, particularly young people have developed life ruining and life ending addictions. This started for many, including a good friend of mine, on Purim.

    This is not trying to be meikil, it’s trying to save lives.

    Personally, I drink but as per my Rebbe’s minhag, I only offer liquor to married people who are “holy” drunk, not wild drunk. When my son’s pass bar mitzvah age, I will likely switch to a cup of wine and a nap, because I don’t want to set the wrong example.

    This is not a joke. Addiction is everywhere, even in the most special and holy kehillos.

    #1692546

    adocs
    Participant

    Maybe the d’oraisa of ushmartem es nafshoseichem overrides the d’rabbonon of ad d’lo yoda ?

    Just a thought…

    #1692557

    Joseph
    Participant

    No one’s saying those with the valid and sincere shitta that you can l’chatchilla nap should do otherwise; and no one should say those with the valid and sincere shitta that you should l’chatchilla get stone drunk should do otherwise.

    You can pasken for your kehila. Those who are members of other kehilos who have their own rabbonim who pasken to get drunk should do so.

    Which, coincidentally, is the traditionally most widely practiced shitta.

    #1692620

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    The most widely accepted shita is to use common sense so we not have to read here about the great work done by Zaka and the chevrah kadishah after some DWI-related auto accident or Hatzalah after some bochur falls off a balcony. I’m sure any Rav whose “shita” is to drink to excess, also prescribes doing so ONLY If you are going to lock the bochurim into the dorm/beis medrash for the night after those who own cars have turned in their keys to the mashgiach ruchani There is no legitimate shita under daas torah that would encourage behavior with a high risk of pikuach nefesh.

    #1692619

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Gadol: The problem with your point is that I’ve been here for years and 99% of the times when this subject comes up, it’s brought up by an anti-drinker.

    His point isn’t to enforce his shittah. His point is that he’s sick of the anti-drinkers promulgating their shittah, and frankly, I think he speaks for all of us. It’s not a chiddush at this point. We don’t need to hear it every year. I sincerely doubt anyone’s ever called you a koifer for not getting drunk. Just like a doubt anyone has ever called someone a koifer for wearing a blue shirt. It’s just a weird, compulsive need that meikel people have to preemptively defend their shittos with CR threads on account of their deep seated insecurities.

    #1692617

    Mistykins
    Participant

    Jdb- if you are waiting until your boys are 13 to set an example, it’s already too late. They are watching you from infancy to learn from your example.

    #1692625

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “His point isn’t to enforce his shittah. His point is that he’s sick of the anti-drinkers promulgating their shittah, and frankly, I think he speaks for all of us. ”

    I so often waste energy formulating actual responses to your posts before remembering youre just a troll

    #1692660

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    NCB; well said. By the way, the mitzvah of drinking on Purim is with wine, not liqueur. I highly doubt all the horror stories came from excessive wine drinking.

    #1692832

    sbeph
    Participant

    I find it strange that the משנה ברורה’s pesak is a היתר.
    תרצה -ה: וישן ומתוך שישן וכו’: וכן ראוי לעשות [פמ”ג]

    #1692720

    The RAMAH says Vyeish Omrim, does that make it B’dieved or his l’chatchilah is different from the mechaber?

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49628&st=&pgnum=320

    #1692728

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Neville…thanks for the musar…I will remember next fall when it comes to lecturing about the public health, sanitation and tzar ba’lei chayim evils of shlugging kaporos with live chickens..

    #1692735

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Syag, how is stating facts a troll post? You’ve been here longer than I have. You know as well as anyone that the anti-drinkers are way more vocal. We’re at the point where those of us who follow the halachah are trolls now?

    #1692863

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    You are supposed to drink Ad D’lo Yoda, but not one drop more. Many go beyond that.

    #1693131

    Gadol Hador- No one is saying to drink irresponsibly and you’re absolutely right, if someone can’t handle it than that’s what the heterim are for.

    adocs- you don’t think that the Rabbonim new about that when they made the chiyuv?

    lowerourtuition11210- Your right I shouldn’t have used the word bidieved.

    RebYidd23- I have yet to see someone reach Ad D’lo Yada.

    #1693150

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    This name is already taken, Ad D’lo Yada might be sooner than you think.

    #1693171

    Have you ever tested someone on whether they know the difference?

    #1693298

    Joseph
    Participant

    If someone is a member of a kehila or Yeshiva where the Rov or Rosh Yeshiva holds al pi halacha that barring extenuating circumstances one is supposed to get completely shikkur, then he is obligated to get drunk on Purim.

    #1693446

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Captain Bump, that’s a good point. What is the difference?

    #1693676

    I don’t no the difference between yes an know.

    #1694987

    Joseph
    Participant

    Even if it is difficult for one to drink, he should make the extra effort to fulfill the mitzvah to get shikkur.

    #1695361

    rational
    Participant

    Generally, when the Ramo states “v’yesh omrim”, he is espousing the Ashkenazic custom and is supporting it over the Mechaber’s position. So yes, l’chatchilah.

    #1695383

    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Truth is I never knew Boruch Mordecai. Neither Arur Haman. Am I Patur?

    #1695591

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    rational: not weighing in on this particular topic, but what you just said is not true. Stam Rema, or “b’midinos eleh” is espousing the dominant Ashkenazi minhag. Yesh oimrim is not necessarily.

    #1695605

    RavDovidHOCKERZ
    Participant

    @ovadyachill ur saying good i mamish agree i cant imagine someone being dumb enough to test a drunkard on his drunkness i think the klall should be mekabel to give around chasers if u think there is such a problem

    #1695620

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Little Froggie, what not to name twin boys.

    #1699662

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Burich Hashem, the home page waited until mid-late afternoon on Purim day to launch the War on Purim this year. Hopefully most ehrlichen yidden were already fully inebriated in the mitzvah.

    A Freilichin Purim! May the following years continue to lessen in the opposition to doing what’s right!

Viewing 32 posts - 1 through 32 (of 32 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.