Acharon Acharon Chaviv?

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  • #1721526

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Usually we say that the first is better. For example the Bechor gets certain first rights. The Cohen gets first Aliyah, or first honors for Mezuman. When do we say that the last is better? (A Rav asked me this over Pesach).

    #1721716

    laskern
    Participant

    The last is protected because it is beloved. ההדיוט קופץ בראש, the smart person hears the other’s view first and makes his view known last. The simple person wants to, because of haughtihess like Haman, be heard first.

    #1721734

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Where it’s not a kavod rather a chashivus

    #1721741

    laskern
    Participant

    coffee addict, doesn’t chashivus require kavod and therefore should come first?

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  laskern.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  laskern.
    #1721771

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    No,

    People hide their heirlooms and things they view as precious

    The person doesn’t hide something in order to get כבוד

    #1721850

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Laskern,

    How do you fit your pshat in Rashi in regards to Rachel and Yosef being last

    #1721825

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    one that comes to mind, is the Rosh brought in Mechaber by netilas yedayim leseudah that the most choshuv should go last

    #1721891

    laskern
    Participant

    There is a Midrash, when someone is haughty and feels he should come first, we tell him a bug was created before you. If he would be smart, he would understand that because of his chashivus the human being was created last in order that everything should be avaiable for him like a set up table.

    #1721885

    laskern
    Participant

    ubiquitin, SA O’CH 165,2 last, for having to wait and be mafsiik less time.

    #1721876

    laskern
    Participant

    coffee addict, Yaakov wanted to protect them from Aisov for his great love for them.

    #1721786

    laskern
    Participant

    coffee addict, People hide – etc. I don’t know what you are talking about. What does this have to do of being last?

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  laskern.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  laskern.
    #1721881

    In seder ha’nivro’im (creation) – man was created last – because of chashivus.

    Likewise, in zman, shabbos is the last day of the week – because of its chashivus.

    Likewise in Olom, Olom Haba comes after Olom Haza, its chashivus makes this world like a foyer to the next world.

    In Nation, also Am Yisroel was formed last, after the formation of the 70 Nations, finally, Bnei Yaakov in Mitzrayim formed Am Yisroel.

    In Bais Hamidosh, the Second Bayis was “greater” in size and duration than the First Mikdosh, but the Third Bayis will be far grander and with greater chashivus.

    In Korbonos, the Korbon Shlomim is listed last (ויקרא ז’, ט”ז – זֹאת הַתּוֹרָה לָעֹלָה לַמִּנְחָה וְלַחַטָּאת וְלָאָשָׁם וְלַמִּלּוּאִים וּלְזֶבַח הַשְּׁלָמִים )
    because of its chashivus, that it is never botel in the future (as the Korbon Todah is one of the Shlomim: לעתיד לבוא, כל הקרבנות בטילים וקרבן תודה אינו בטל. כל התפילות בטילות, ההודאה אינה בטילה

    In Aliyos, Shivie is usually given the Rov, but Maftir trumps in chashivus.

    In Nozir 66b (and Brochos 53b): Answering Amen is greater than the making of Brocha, first the weak ones battle and later the strong ones win the battle. The chashivus of coming later is Amen.

    And in Shulchan Oruch the most choviv and choshuv halacha is the last Ramo: “וטוב לב משתה תמיד” Drink and be always happy – don’t be a hateful bitter person. L’CHAIM!!

    #1721918

    laskern
    Participant

    Usually it is always first except if there is a reason to be last.

    #1721936

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Laskern,

    Rashi says by Rachel אחרון אחרון חביב Rashi is in לב:ב (the דבור המתחיל is actually with לאה)

    #1721938

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    “coffee addict, People hide – etc. I don’t know what you are talking about. What does this have to do of being last?“

    You were asking about difference between כבוד & חשיב

    #1721962

    laskern
    Participant

    By kodshim the day comes first then night, because you can accomplish more in this world by doing mitzvos than next world. We have week days first because we suffer first than rest. Similarly, night comes first than day. By the goyim it is the opposite.

    #1721965

    laskern
    Participant

    coffee addict Rashi is ל’ג ,ב

    #1722004

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Laskern,

    Sorry, you’re right about the place in Rashi

    #1722019

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    What about ברכה אחריתא at a wedding?

    #1722274

    laskern
    Participant

    We finish shamonei esrei with peace הכל הולך אחר החתימה All is well that ends well.

    #1722275

    laskern
    Participant

    The reason to finish with good is because we remember our last experiences best.

    #1722281

    laskern
    Participant

    We lead up to the crescendo or climax.

    #1722352

    laskern
    Participant

    There is a midrash, where Hashem said to Yerohom ben Nevot, repant and I, you, and Dovid will walk together in Gan Eden, so he asked, who will lead? Dovid, he was told. In that case I don’t want. This is another sign of haughtiness.

    #1722456

    laskern – “haughtiness”? he held that if he does proper teshuva, bmokom she’baalei teshuva omdim afilu tzaddikim gemurim aynom yecholim la’amod shom, not only does he deserve to lead, but it would demonstrate the koach of doing teshuva m’ahava (that zidonos na’asu lo k’zochiyos).

    #1722485

    laskern
    Participant

    RG, If he does teshuva meahava what is the difference who leads?

    #1724368

    As I wrote: “it would demonstrate the koach of doing teshuva m’ahava (that zidonos na’asu lo k’zochiyos)” – to demonstrate to others (which is a form of kiddush Hashem).

    #1724373

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    In posting here in the CR, it is normally the LAST posting that has the opportunity to summarize and provide his/her spin to the consensus position on the issue teed up by the FIRST person; however there can only be one FIRST posting and an infinite number of LAST postings (unless the final posting is so definitive and blows away all other possible views that the MODs decide to close the thread).

    #1724484

    The mods can close a thread, leaving the last posting as the final say on the topic. (not necessarily the “maskona”, sometimes it’s like walking away from a debate).

    #1724491

    laskern
    Participant

    RG, as usual, I don’t know what you are talking about. Yerovom said instead of teshuva אי הכי לא בעינא in that case I don’t want it.

    #1724513

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    No such luck on this thread Dorah!

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