- This topic has 17 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 6 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Reuven is a Zionist, Shimon is Charedi, Leivi is in Lakewood, Yehudah is in Yeshiva University, Yisachar is a Chasid, and Zevulon is a Misnaged. All 6 of these men believe in the 13 ikkarim of the Rambam. All 6 are Shomrei Halachah and kove’a ittim. All 6 have incredible Gedolim shlita who support their hashafah. All 6 are Jewish. From each of their perspectives, how should they relate to each other?
a) Achdus is too important to sacrifice. Our hashkafic differences are petty. There is no reason for hatred. Keep the machlokes for the Beis Medrash. There are 12 Shvatim for a reason, there is more than one way to relate to and serve HaShem. Who am I to say someone is wrong or c”v call them a kofer or apikores? I’ll have a chavrusa with any one of them, I’ll eat in their house, I’ll daven in their shul, and I would let my children marry into their families. If we want Mashi’ach to come we have to put our petty differences aside and have achdus with one another. Acheinu kol beis Yisro’el.
b) I have to fight for emes. Of course there were 12 shvatim and there is more than one way to serve HaShem, but that’s only if you have a proper hashkafah! Their hashkafah is wrong, I don’t really care what “their gedolim” say. HaShem’s seal is emes. One cannot compromise emes, or even give the perception that one is compromising emes. This is not the type of shalom that HaShem wants. This is not the type of shalom that will bring Mashi’ach. Emes is most important, it is uncompromisable. I must be a kana’i for the name of HaShem, and I will fight against sheker before fighting for shalom.
(disclaimer: this topic is not discussing which of these hashkafos are correct. This also not a debate on who is considered a gadol c”v. I do not want this to become a forum for loshon hara. This is to debate when one views another hashkafah is wrong, can there be shalaom and should there be shalom?)
A is the way!!
“Al Taasu Chaburos Chaburos”
I don
t see any room for your question simcha613, what in the world are you mixing up sholom with hashkafah? Do you not have sholom with every goy that see, Im sure goyim dont have the right haskofos? And how do you know that someone elses haskofos are wrong maybe its your haskofos that are wrong? Just beacause people look, dress, talk, act difrently (and you think that they are wrong) doesn’t mean that you can’t be friends with them? There is no mitzvah in the Torah that you must not get along with a goy, kul shiken with your fellow yid, and for sure only that you THINK his haskofos are wrong.. Lets be marbeh sholom and not sinas chinum, so we could be zoche to the binyan bayis shlisi bimheru viyumenu.Hashem loves Shalom, and btw, I DO have shalom with non-jews. And it IS important since we are living in THEIR country and need to be grateful.
So if you should have shalom with non-Jews, surely you should have shalom with Jews who aren’t keeping the Torah correctly. So what’s the question here?
One thing we all have to remember which pretty much levels the playing field, no matter which Rav you follow, no matter which livush you wear, no matter which kipah style you choose, no matter which neighborhood you live in, no matter what the differences are THERE IS ONLY ONE HASHEM, and he wants us all to play nicely in the sandbox.
“Al Taasu Chaburos Chaburos”
Sadly, practically since time immemorial, we have utterly failed at that — much to our regret time and time and time again.
The Wolf
You don’t necessarily have to agree with someone to respect them. If you have certain standards (and honestly keep them) a less observant person will probably understand why they are able to eat in your house, but won’t be offended if you won’t eat by them. You’ll probably both agree that your kids are better off not marrying each other, but you’ll be there for each other by the respective weddings.
pascha bchochma
Its interesting, as a kid I was alway taught or I always heard how bad goyim are to Jews and how much they hate us, but the truth is that there are plenty of goyim which are really nice and respect Jews. When a Jew acts as he should he gets admiration and respect. Its important to remember that they do look at the Jew to see how he behaves so let’s all make a Kiddush Hashem. People often wonder how they can make a kiddush Hashem yet its so simple. If you do business with goyim and you act like a mentsch, be honest, and talk like a Yid without nivul peh they will be very impressed and that’s a Kiddush Hashem!
P.s. Pascha, I answered your question on the Shir shel yom thread please check it out.
WIY, BTW it is a bigger kiddush hashem to make a K”H amongst yidden, than to goyim.
Ben Torah
That may be and I’m not saying otherwise. But some people arrogantly think that we Jews own the world and can treat goyim how we want, or some people thing that to gain respect from them we need to lower our standards and act and speak like them. I have found the opposite to be true.
I think that one aspect is missing. Speakers usually discuss the idea of Tolerance when talking about achdus. Being able to tolerate each others quirks and ideas. That’s totally wrong. The idea is to have Understanding. Tolerance means that you’re wrong, you stink, but I’m so good that I can Tolerate you. That’s not the beginning of achdus. Understanding means that I have my shita and you have yours and although our shitas don’t agree, I understand where you come from and why you feel that way. That’s achdus. And achdus is realizing that klal yisroel was divided by Hashem into 12 separate but equal tribes or mini-nations because that’s what He wanted.
WIY: 100% agree with you.
(thanks for tleling me -I answered the Shir Shel Yom but the mods havent put it up for some reason)
Theprof1
You make a good point. Actually, Achdus is as Rashi says by Har Sinai on the passuk “Vayichan Sham Yisroel Neged Hahar” he says “Keish Echad Bleiv Echad” like one man with one heart. Achdus is a coming together to the point that we all fuse into one. Wow I just had a chiddish!! This just came to me: Rashi says Keish echad “Bleiv” echad and explains that in all other encampents there were complaints and arguments but not here. I want to explain that Rashi means that when it comes to Torah, everyone has their own Kavanos and Machshavos and Hashkafos…no 2 minds are alike so there can never be Keish Echad “Bmoach” echad or “seichel echad” one man with one mind or one brain. There are many ways to get to Hashem. However when it comes to our hearts, they have to be one, all of our collective machshavos have to all have the same goals, Ahavas Hashem, Yiras Hashem, Ahavta Lreiacha Kamocha..how we get there is up to us but the bottom line is our hearts have to be as one in all these areas.
WIY Excellent!!!!!!!
Theprof1
Thanks!!
I’m reminded of our common denominator every time I travel. I’ve been in a minyan where the 7th thru 10th person only daven once in a while, I’ve asked people who I know not to be frum, if they’ll stand in as the 10th.
Hard to judge what the value of a yehei shemei rabbah and omain is from “once-in-a-while” people, but I’ll bet its way up there.
At my firm’s mincha minyan we have about 10-20 people. Last year one of the associates, who isn’t at all frum, lost a parent and started coming to mincha for kaddish. He’s past the yaer but still comes almost every day. This is most certainly his only tefila each day yet he comes. BH we convinced him, you never know.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.