Achdus, Chareidim and Internet
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November 15, 2010 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #593053
Dear Friends, As many of you know from my posts, while I had always thought of myself as a Chareidi, I became extremely turned off at a number of issues which I found out are pervasive in the Chareidi world.
But recently I have realized that the internet has become far worse than it ever was. There are very dangerous and addictive sites that have opened which threaten to ruin anybody’s ruchnius. We are literally being drowned in a sea of hefkerus. I now understand some of the motivations of the Chareidim. When a person is drowning, he may yell and scream for a life preserver. He may pull on anything he can grasp to save himself. He may not act rationally in his panic.
If we view many of these behaviors of the Chareidim in this light, they become better understood. Because the dangers of the street are so great, Chareidim may enocurage one to stay in yeshiva and give up everything else even at risk of severe poverty, just to stay away from the lures of the outside. A yeshiva in that sense is a safe haven, not just an institution of higher learning. They refuse to teach their kids English so they will not be able to mix with the outside world and pratically be forced to stay in the insular communities in which they were brought up. While I am not saying I agree with this, at least now I understand it. Unfortunately the dangers are now so real, and any child or parent can slip and be lost for good, that perhaps they feel there is no other choice.
Just a thought on Achdus and trying to understand a viewpoint we may think is very different.
EDITEDNovember 15, 2010 9:57 pm at 9:57 pm #715933gavra_at_workParticipant
They refuse to teach their kids English so they will not be able to mix with the outside world and pratically be forced to stay in the insular communities in which they were brought up.
This is the essence of Israeli Charadism.
It has always been so (IMHO).November 15, 2010 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #715934myfriendMember
I’m glad you are starting to see the light. 🙂
Give it some more time, and you’ll come all the way around.November 15, 2010 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #715935bezalelParticipant
But we need to determine if these actions are having the desired affect or are they just alienating those that they are trying to help.November 16, 2010 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #715936mghanooniMember
The Rambam writes that if you live in a corrupt world, then you should go live in a cave to avoid it. Rav Yoel said that a yeshiva is such a cave.November 16, 2010 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #715937msseekerMember
This is why gedolim are called ???? ????. Just as the eyes see danger before the person comes too close to it, so our gedolim see danger before the body of klal yisroel. Not listening to them is like not believing your eyes when they’re warning you of danger ahead.November 17, 2010 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #715938
The bottom line is that it is very hard to know what to do about internet. It will be just like the phone soon, where you need it for just about anything. For example, my bank stopped giving check images with monthly statements, and they must be accessed online, or so I was told.
However, the terrible immorality becomes a big nisayon. It used to be that the Jewish home was a sanctuary where one could get a rest from the yetzer hara, and not be barraged with temptations. Now the street has entered the home. Just saw a Rashi in Berachos, Oy li miyitzri oy li miyotzri. Rashi says the yetzer hara is miyago bhirhurim, doesn’t let him rest, even if he successfully fights it off.November 17, 2010 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #715940WIYMember
Actually, I think a married woman should go out on the street looking good, but not “too good.”
Her looks and best clothing should be reserved for her husband. Does it make any sense that women look great all day and when the husband comes home and sees her for the first time her make up is off and shes in a house coat, robe whatever looking very “plain”…?
The way things are done today is backwards.November 17, 2010 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm #715941
WIY, it is understandable that a woman will want to change when she comes home, as it is not comfortable to cook wearing a 3-piece work suit (or however many pieces are in women’s suits). But she should at least wear a nice robe or something.
Just like men like to change when they get home. I do not like wearing suits around the house, and they can easily get dirty during meals, etc.November 18, 2010 4:00 am at 4:00 am #715942addictedParticipant
I agree with your general point. However, I do not agree with the way it was worded
For example: When one is in panic mode, he does extreme and strange things
These are Gedolim we are talking about! Gedolim who are referred to as “einei haedia” because they can see things that we can not! They are focused on the future of klal yisroel. I don’t think it is appropriate to call their actions extreme and strange.December 8, 2010 11:19 pm at 11:19 pm #715943rabbi vMember
although i am in two worlds one side as a rov and assisting bet din, and the aguna debakle and the other hand in bussiness as a contractor expeditor.
for the above two computers and internet make live a lot easier to the point without it the research etc. which takes minutes to hours would become years to a life time.
from a father point of view i feel we have to be very carefull.
personally i dont believe children and adults ALIKE !! should have internet in private chambers, there is no limit to jetzer Horah but now with out ” busha ” in the privacy of your home.
which makes it lethal to our neshome.
I just bought a computer for my children for school etc.
that computer will be placed in my seforiem stib where everyone goes in all the time, surounded by kedusha hopefully making the computer operator think twice to go to the wrong sites.December 9, 2010 1:42 am at 1:42 am #715944
Some have proposed to make a special domain suffix for inappropriate sites. I think that is a very good idea. Then one can request from his ISP not to carry that domain, and would solve a major part of the problem. This would avoid filters which are annoying and cumbersome and don’t make good decisions, often.
It would have to be a law that all these sites must use that suffix. However, some have argued that this would double the amount of inappropriate sites, since they would now have the new domains, plus their old ones. This argument is so ridiculous, as the law would require them not to use .com or .org, etc. any more. Yet people cloaking themsleves in self-righteousness, are actually trying to undermine the law and further the problem, but don’t want to appear to be doing that.
The other problem which is harder to solve is that many sites such as Rock Music sites or various Youtube videos are inappropriate for Jewish kids, even though some Youtube videos are fine and even frum. Nobody can possibly evaluate them all, so one either ends up letting them all through or blocking them all. Neither is a good solution. However, the first issue seems so clear-cut and easily solved with a law about domains. Rating systems worked for many years in movie theaters, and I don’t understand why they can’t be applied here.December 9, 2010 3:54 am at 3:54 am #715945Trying my bestMember
Pashute: The proposed domain suffice you reference would be entirely voluntary. All the sites will keep their .com’s as well. There is no proposal otherwise. Thus the opposition to that suffix.December 9, 2010 12:10 pm at 12:10 pm #715946
Trying, so why not make a law that forbids them from using .com, .org or .net. And include that by default, ISP’s would not be allowed to transmit anything with the new suffix unless specifically requested with proof of age.
Wouldn’t this clean up the major problem of the internet?December 9, 2010 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #715947Trying my bestMember
First Amendment (ostensibly).December 9, 2010 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #715948bennaishekParticipant
i myself am being overtaken by the nisyonos of the internet . i wish of a way to stop . 🙁December 9, 2010 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #715949
Trying, why was that not an issue for movie theaters. In addition, in NYC they forced many adult theaters to close and/or to relocate more than some number of feet from each other and from schools or residential areas or something like that. If they can physically move them without violating free speech, why not do the same on internet?December 9, 2010 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #715950
Bennaishek, sorry to hear that. Will try to post some thoughts soon.December 10, 2010 4:38 am at 4:38 am #715951🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Bennaishek – PLEASE don’t let this wait! Go to guardyoureyes.com and read what other people like you are doing to help themselves and support each other.December 10, 2010 5:01 am at 5:01 am #715952HealthParticipant
I like the notion that only people with internet, TV, etc. can do aveiros, noone else?!?!!?? Also, how come when the telephone first came out, why didn’t all the gedolim assur it? People are oiver many issurim every second on the phone, eg. L.H.
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