August 28, 2012 1:32 am at 1:32 am #604697mra01385Participant
Has anyone been involved with ACS? What was the experience like? Were the ACS staff nice and caring? Were children put into foster care? etc.August 28, 2012 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm #894203
Oh my gosh I was about to start a thread about acs. I need these questions answered as well. I have been debating calling acs on my neighbors because they beat on their children and verbally abuse them to no end. I am wondering though, in the ny area what it will be like for the kids. Surely better than what they have going on now.August 28, 2012 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #894204
You should discuss this with a Rav that you are sure knows how to handle such situations. (not every Rav knows how to deal with this).
Just so that you know, ACS has the potential of messing up someones reputation and life even if ACS finds that there is nothing wrong. (a case gets opened, and stays open for at least 6 months, afterwards there will always be record of the case).
Also, calling ACS for revenge or for personal reasons can get you in jail.
I know of an organization that follows a Ravs guidance, they have called ACS a lot of times. However they claim, that when you need them, they are ineffective, when you dont, they mess up the families life.August 28, 2012 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #894205kfbParticipant
Please explain what a Rav has to do with this. How would he know if the parents are beating the children or not? Btw you could get jail time for not calling acs when you know of child abuse and didn’t do anything about it.August 28, 2012 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #894206
This is not not true, unless you are a mandatory reporter such as police officer or maybe a teacher you will not be prosecuted for not reporting. however most other people are not mandatory reporters.
The reason one should consult with COMPETENT Rav, is because calling ACS can ruin a family and their life forever. Therefore; before doing such a drastic move which can have drastic effects you should consult with a Rav that has knowledge of abuse and what the implications of abuse and calling ACS are.August 28, 2012 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #894207
So for my situation it is not a question that someone needs to get involved. I don’t know that going to a Rav who does not know these people would be able to tell me anything new. ( no disrespect but he is not here all day everyday listening to the physical and verbal abuse that my family is. I just don’t want acs to come, intervene and then just put the kids right back, havin angered the parents. What if they take it out on the kids? That’s another issue I have.August 28, 2012 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #894208
This is how it usually works.
ACS will come and make an interview. they will ask as many questions as possible. they will look around the house. might even talk to the children.
The fact that you say that you heard something, does not mean much to them. A lot of people who know the system and abuse their children know how to handle ACS as well. This is unfortunate.
A lot of people who really do not abuse their children had a lot of headaches with ACS, most orthodox yidden get very exited when ACS knocks on their door, they shut the door start shouting.
ACS gets excited as well, what is this person hiding. They are not versed in the mentality of orthodox yidden.
However, if you really think that this is a legitimate case of abuse, I would suggest that you consult with a Torah Authority, so like that you know that even if it turns out that you did more harm than good, you have backing.
Most people do not know, ACS is not interested in keeping your children, they will work together with anyone who is willing to get help and return the children to the parents home.August 28, 2012 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #894209
Ofcourse they don’t want to keep the children, the system is overflowing with children unfortunately. I gues consulting someone would not be the worst thing. I plan to call either ways just don’t, as I said, want this to anger them more and have them take it out on their children( like they do everything else). It’s just just cases of me hearing, have seen as well as they do nothing to hide their behavior.August 28, 2012 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #894210yaakov doeParticipant
I’ve had experience with ACS both reporting and being reported. I would strongly suggest that you contact Ohel. They have a mobile crisis intervention unit which may the appropriate way to deal with your concerns.
ACS doesn’t want to take children and their goal is to keep families together, sometimes with disasterous results.August 28, 2012 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #894211
Wow I apologize for all of my typos, I was writing from my phone and I must have not looked over my paragraph.
You said to contact ohel, what would they do In a situation like this?August 28, 2012 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm #894212mom12Participant
I say contact Ohel as well.
Bikur cholim of boro park has a family crisis office.
they will come and talk to family and see what is going on..
they might refer you to Ohel as well.
and put you in touch with the right peopleAugust 29, 2012 12:08 am at 12:08 am #894213
Neither organization or any other except ACS have the legal responsibility to investigate child abuse. These organizations named have no legal responsibility to respond. You can call the State Register and not leave your name. ACS, as clumsy as they may be. will investigate. They will ask the family to a conference and meet with family members including any individuals they want to bring to the conference as part of the investigation. They will provide services and help the family. In extreme cases of abuse, they will refer the case to court. Removal of children is the last resort and if the children or even one cannot or does not want to remain at home, a friend or relative will be asked first. Children are no longer lost to the system, ACS does not just remove children without oversight or court order.
they will try to help the family so that children are not abused physically. Verbal abuse is hard to prove and the family will need to accept services.
Ohel has a preventive service unit that is free and can help the family but the family must sign up for the service.
It is the right thing to do to try to intervene and help. Child abuse will scar children for life. Trauma from child abuse or witness even if it is hearing the abuse is detrimental to children.
Please do something even if it is calling the police during an attack or Albany at the Register. You can call without leaving your name and you will remain nameless, just act please. In the name of those children please act.August 29, 2012 3:41 am at 3:41 am #894214mom12Participant
are you looking for legal action or for help..
Once there is a file open, the family is scrutinized with a magnifying glass.
If thats what these people are looking for, go for it.August 29, 2012 4:11 am at 4:11 am #894215
I don’t know about the OP’s situation, but mine I am guessing they don’t want help. I assume they think what they are doing is normal. They have an aid for one of their children and they keep scaring them off, they scream/threaten everything and everyone but I have only seen and heard them physically abuse their children.August 29, 2012 5:40 am at 5:40 am #894216scienceprogramMember
How many cases do you know of personally where ACS put each member in a caring and frum home? As far as my experiences, ACS puts children into homes and people put on “shows” when the ACS worker comes to “check on that foster child”.
ACS workers are regular people who work because they have to! Many times the children are put into homes where they are abused too!
How would you like it if someone says that the way you discipline your children is abusive? How would you feel if someone threatened to take your children away?
You might say you are not abusing your children but guess what? ACS will act on any call, and they do not make a difference between regular discipline and actual abuse because they do not have enough manpower to really investigate… and because they do not have enough workers that really care!
Obviously if you decide to ask a rav or not is your decision, we are required to let a rav decide if we should call only because he could use siyata dishmaya to determine if calling could have WORSE EFFECTS THAN NOT CALLING! as it says “asay lecha rav”!August 29, 2012 10:45 am at 10:45 am #894217
Are you an actual Morah of Kids in School or do you just use that name here
The reason I am asking is if you are an actual Morah in a School, you are a mandatory reporter and must report any suspected abuse that you think.
Teachers are usually trained to know the signs of abuse and hopefully you were too.August 29, 2012 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #894218
Yes i am a teacher. I am required to report any signs of abuse regarding the children in my classroom, but i agree with you. As i stated i feel awful that i have not reported it sooner. I was pregnant this whole year and this neighbor has threatened me NUMEROUS times and honestly, i was afraid she was going to push me down a flight of stairs or worse. So i was being selfish. I happen to have a newborn now which is why i am pushing it off until i move. I hope that Hashem forgives me for that but i was putting my family first.
I do not want to say too much because it may give me away, as my husband and i have discussed the situation with many of our friends, but what goes on in that home is out of control, and unbearable for the kids. No one is answering my question so i will ask again, IF acs does come and for whatever reason lets the kids stay, what if the parents react WORSE then usual and do something drastic? I am being 100% serious. As i told the police one of the many times i called them on these neighbors, ” does a child need to be killed for you to actually do something about this”?August 29, 2012 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #894219
I seriosuly doubt the people will be happy when ACS comes, but if they are truly as bad as you say they are you MUST get those kids out of there ASAP!!!!
Those kids could be damaged for a lifetime, Please help them NOW!!!August 29, 2012 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #894220
I know!!! We are calling as SooN as we mOve which iyH is in the next 2 weeks. what I don’t get it that the Police have been called so many times, by all of the neighbors, yet they do nothing.August 29, 2012 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #894221
Call ACS in your area… If you live in NYC you can dial 311 and get themAugust 29, 2012 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #894222
Thank you very much, I will.August 29, 2012 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #894223
I think in NYC you can dial anonymously so nobody will know you reported themAugust 29, 2012 5:39 pm at 5:39 pm #894224
I am a child advocate attorney in a different state, where I have both represented children and before that represented a major city’s child welfare department (the city social workers).
When people have inquired of me in that capacity about things similar to your inquiries here, I have advised them that, in my state, there are criminal charges (misdemeanors) that can be brought against mandated reporters who fail to report to the local child abuse hotline.
In my very brief Internet search into New York’s child welfare laws, it appears to me that New York imposes both criminal penalties and can seek to hold mandatory reporters who fail to report liable in civil court for any damages that result due to that failure to report.
G-d forbid anything happens in the next two weeks.
I understand that you have a newborn and are moving, which makes the timing awful.
Nonetheless, I can not encourage you strongly enough to make the report as soon as possible, based upon the fact that you are a mandatory reporter and due to the civil and criminal penalties that New York imposes on mandatory reporters who do not report.August 29, 2012 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #894225
Aurora, thank you. As bad as I feel about waiting, I have called the police numerous times and filed 1 report. My neighbors have called twice as many times, and we have spoken with our apartment manager and land lord. I just did not want to go as far as acs while I am here out of fear. So c’v anything happened.. I kind of think I have put a decent amount of effort into this. Even today I was walking with my sister in law & my child jn front of our building and the woman and her husband were screaming louder than you can imagine at each other and their children, cursing , literally throwing cardboard boxes at each other.. With no regard for the people walking bye. They are unstable.August 29, 2012 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #894226
In my work, I have noticed on many occasions a lack of communication between government entities that have specific protocols to interact with each other — e.g., children & youth services and the police department.
That being said, the unit of the police department that would be most used to interacting with and reporting to children & youth services due to frequent collaboration would be New York City Police Department’s equivalent of a Special Victim’s Unit (it may be called that in fact, as it was in the large city where I formerly practiced). The officer who responds to the equivalent of a 911 call initially probably is not an officer in the Special Victim’s Unit, nor a detective in same.
Nonetheless, the mandatory reporter fulfills the legal duty to report and avoids criminal and civil penalties by reporting to the local child abuse hotline, which is distinct from calling the police via the 911 equivalent in New York City. The mandatory reporter duty and the phone number for the hotline are posted on the New York City Administration for Children’s Services website.August 29, 2012 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #894227
Thank you, and to everyone else as well. I will b’n let you know what happens. Sorry to the OP for taking over the thread! Good luck to you too!August 29, 2012 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #894228
Good luck to you MorahRach!August 30, 2012 12:32 am at 12:32 am #894229
there is a law in NYState called Xstacy’s law that obligates mandated reporters to report second hand information. and to report child abuse and maltreatment for investigation when they suspect abuse even if they are off the clock. This would mandate MorahRach to report the family. There really is no reason to wait. A call can be made by anyone who knows the name or address of the individuals that you cite. This situation seems extreme and needs intervention.
There are real problems in this family and the lack of calling in reports is as serious. Mandated reports can be sued, placed in ‘jail or fined if they knew and did not report. If something serious happens, possible death or serious injury to a child and MorahRach knew, MorahRach is liable. it is rarely used but in these fragile times of Penn State and DA Hynes, I would not take any risk..
a family member or someone can report for you. I understand your fear but my fear for the children are greater. If something serious happens, you will always know you could have acted.August 30, 2012 1:57 am at 1:57 am #894230
It is interesting to hear that New York is widening the scope of their child abuse/neglect reporting laws as well. That has certainly been the case here in Pennsylvania as well. Indeed, within the past several years, our CPS statute added the second-hand information requirement like New York. We have had numerous high profile deaths in Philadelphia of children known to Children & Youth Services. As you mention, there is also the Penn State situation in the forefront or background on any given day, and then we have the guilty sentence that just recently came down on the supervising Catholic priest in the Philadelphia Archdiocese who was found by a jury to have failed to take sufficient action to protect children from pedophile priests.
In the ten years that I have been practicing, I do not think that child welfare law has ever been so much in the daily news in the Commonwealth or perhaps the nation as it has been in the past year or so.August 30, 2012 2:40 am at 2:40 am #894231
Here is what to do if ACS, C’V, comes knocking at your door:
A) Do not let them into your house. They cannot enter without your permission unless they show you a court warrant from a Judge. They generally will not have that. Letting them in is an invitation for them to mess your life up.
B) Do not tell them anything or talk to them. Be polite and advise them you are unable to speak to them. Close your door.August 30, 2012 3:18 am at 3:18 am #894232147Participant
ACS is the most vile & filthy organization on the face of this earth.
They don’t even care about children. They only care about pleasing angry women, and destroying innocent men, and breaking up good families, and advancing their careers even on false pretenses.August 30, 2012 4:18 am at 4:18 am #894233ready nowParticipant
MoraRach I really feel for you and wish you well, also wish good for those kids next door- including the parents. If you can remain anonymous as Brooklineborn says, just ring, even from a public phone box. Good luck.
They are probably wondering why no one has come to help – it is all a sign they need help.August 30, 2012 5:01 am at 5:01 am #894234mra01385Participant
Now I am getting nervous about ACS that they will ruin my family and life. Yakovdoe said the end result can be disastrous, (even if they don’t take away my 2 little children.)
The reason why I’m involved with Acs is because due to a big miscommunication between my husband and I, our 2 mo old infant was mistakenly left outside at night on the sidewalk in his carriage for about 25min while my husband went to daven maariv, and I went with my 2yr old to get supper in a pizza shop. We both thought our spouse had the baby while in the meantime he was left alone on the sidewalk. So someone passing by called the cops. The cops then had an EMT bring my baby to the emergency room to make sure he was ok. There, they called ACS. I think the cops blew this whole incident way out of porportion. So now we have to deal with ACS. I hope imyh eveything will turn out well.August 30, 2012 5:12 am at 5:12 am #894235
mra: You should consider getting a lawyer rather than communicating with ACS without a lawyer. And say as little as possible to them; anything you say can be twisted and used against you.August 30, 2012 9:35 am at 9:35 am #894236
The definition of child abuse and neglect are clear under the Social Service Law and Family Court Act. Lack of Supervision, leaving your children alone is under part of the Social Service Law and Family Court Act. ACS can only investigate the law. There is a state criteria for safe and leaving children alone or with inadequate caretakers are not safe situations. If leaving the child alone was a misunderstanding then it should be a situation that should be resolved in the investigation period, Watch for a indicated report letter that will have long lasting effects.
the law allows for hitting your child but you cannot use excessive corporal punishment, the law does not dictate how old a babysitter has to be but the person has to be mature, capable and an adequate caretaker,…
An indicated child welfare case is a serious matter. It effects any work with children. If any organization tries to clear someone with an indicated report, they cannot. There are ways to get the cases expunged and clear the records.
Leaving children alone is a serious matter, especially if the police took the child.
As for MorahRach, ACS will only come to talk to you if you leave your name and address or they are talking randomly to neighbors which they are obligated to do. They will not get legal action to talk to a collateral. They have to get a warrant to talk to someone who was reported.
Nixmary Brown would still be alive if they got a warrant and didnt try keeping back at different times.
As for the law, Xstacy was a child with her parents in a hotel and the hotel clerk heard her abuse and they called DSS upstate and DSS did not call the case in or take action. The child died. This has been a law for over 5 years, The Sandusky case will change mandated reporting laws across the country.
Child abuse is serious and needs to be taken seriously,August 30, 2012 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #894237
as one poster pointed out already, you should get a lawyer that specializes in these stuff.
from where do you take those directions?
ACS can obtain a court order and take away the children by force. In fact Slamming the door on them will give them more evidence that you are hiding something from them.August 30, 2012 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #894238
After reading your posts, my personal opinion is, that if the situation is as severe as you write it is, you should not delay reporting them to ACS.
What makes a neighbor a mandatory reporter?August 30, 2012 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #894239popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Just saying, do you really want to get these reshaim involved http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/138833/Parents-Threatened-With-Criminal-Charges-Over-Circumcision.htmlAugust 30, 2012 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #894240
Thanks everyone. We are calling today wish us luck. You are right we should not delay anymore, I just hope they don’t find out it was me, as is i pretend to be on my phone when I pass by them so they don’t talk/yell at me. Thanks for the info and help!August 30, 2012 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #894241
from where do you take those directions?
ACS can obtain a court order and take away the children by force. In fact Slamming the door on them will give them more evidence that you are hiding something from them.
No they cannot without proving to a court the children are in immediate danger.
And you absolutely do have the absolute Constitutional right to keep them out of your home for any or no reason at all. It is called the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution. And the right is absolute. You need not explain why you don’t want them in your home. And excersizing your right under the Constitution does not give them any thing to hold against you under the law.
They must go to a court and prove to a judge probably cause against you to get a warrant to do anything. Without them being able to demonstrate that to court, they are powerless. And you can keep them out of your home and refuse to talk to them.August 30, 2012 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #894242
A neighbor is not a mandatory reporter, but a teacher is (MorahRach mentioned that she was a teacher in a previous post). Within the past several years, various states (including Pennsylvania where I live and New York) have expanded the scope of reporting for mandatory reporters to include situations of second-hand knowledge. The duty is also extended beyond the classroom (or whatever the mandatory reporter’s official work environment is).
Hello MorahRach, I am wishing you the best of luck and will be thinking of you! Please take care.August 30, 2012 11:32 pm at 11:32 pm #894243
I am not 100% sure if MorahRach is a mandatory reporter against her neighbor unless she was a teacher of one of the kids.
While there might not be a legal imperitive to report, there certainly is a moral imperitive to report.August 31, 2012 12:43 am at 12:43 am #894244
I am thinking that you may be correct about that, now that I have reviewed a few more aspects of New York’s mandatory reporting laws. It would seem that the mandatory reporting legal duty is enlarged for social service workers, more so than for the other classes of mandatory reporters (such as teachers).
I apologize for any confusion for this misunderstanding. Thank you for that clarification.August 31, 2012 2:07 am at 2:07 am #894245
you are absolutely correct. The law speaks to social service workers but in the NYC DOE who used to relegate all reporting to a social worker or guidance counselor, they also have to report. It expands the responsibility of reporting and does not allow these mandated reporter to give the information to a social worker. If a principal hears the information, they also have to report.
Neighbors are not mandated reports though teachers are. The list of mandated reporters and the social service law can be located on the NYS website at the Office of Children and Family Service website. NYS is attempting to add clergy to the list, they are currently not included but other school staff are mandated reporters.
I also wish Morah the best, calling the SCR and prompting an investigation is a hard thing to do when you are not used to it.August 31, 2012 2:34 am at 2:34 am #894246
Thank you Brookline for all of your information. These systems can certainly be confusing to navigate when one is not accustomed to the process.
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