May 14, 2012 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #603411working harderMember
Now before everyone goes all crazy and thinking i’m old fashioned, hear me out.
I do in fact believe that such mental disorders do in fact exists, however, i think the number of people who actually have it VS the number of people who SAY they have it are very far apart.
A lot of people around me keep saying ” i wish i could learn seder but…i have ADD” or “i would go to college and get an education but …i have ADD”
When do you tell the person to snap out of it and when do you keep quiet?May 14, 2012 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #874204
Wanna ride bikes?May 14, 2012 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #874205OneOfManyParticipant
I think they are knowingly exaggerating – like when people say they are claustrophobic or insomniac. I don’t see why that would make the real disorder not real, though…May 14, 2012 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #874206
My opinion: It used to be kids with ADHD would cause a bit of trouble for their parents and teachers but they mostly turned out OK and ended up being the life of the party in camps etc. Now they over-medicate them, thus stunting their natural personality and making them feel that they can’t do things that really they could.May 14, 2012 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #874207far eastMember
mod 42- completely disagree. For all those who grew out of it, there are just as many whom it had strong negative effects on them later in life. Theres a big difference between a trouble maker and a kid with add/adhd.
Also theres a common misconcpetion that add/adhd medicines stunt a childs growth. This is far from the truth. In fact it does the opposite it teaches the child to focus in classrooms and keep their mind from driftingMay 14, 2012 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #874208akupermaParticipant
One could argue that the behavior they are describing are well within the parameters of “normal” behavior. Of course, the medical community derives very little parnassah from treating anyone who is “normal.” There is a danger that a child so diagnosed will end up having his life ruined by dangerous drugs, and will give up trying since he’ll accept the definition that he’s defective to begin with.
In the past, our community never so isolated kids who less than 200% perfect, so even believe in ADD is something “hadash” not sanction or based on Torah.May 14, 2012 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #874209
Ask them if they’ve ever been tested. There are computerized tests that can determine more definitavely if they do, in fact, have ADHD.May 15, 2012 3:11 am at 3:11 am #874210May 15, 2012 3:41 am at 3:41 am #874211HealthParticipant
YW Moderator-42 -“My opinion: It used to be kids with ADHD would cause a bit of trouble for their parents and teachers but they mostly turned out OK and ended up being the life of the party in camps etc. Now they over-medicate them, thus stunting their natural personality and making them feel that they can’t do things that really they could.”
In my medical opinion and I think Aries once posted this -what your saying could be true. A lot of Mechanchim don’t know how to teach or discipline. Anything they can’t handle is labeled ADD or ADHD. They force the parent either to get the kid treated or he/she has to leave the school. The Parent comes crying to the Pediatrician and he/she puts the kid on meds to save the kid from being expelled.
Now, in spite of this, there is a disorder called ADD/ADHD. If s/o thinks or the school thinks that the kid has this -the kid should be tested by a professional usually a social worker or psychologist. If the kid is diagnosed with this disorder, then and only then, should the kid be medicated. Stop being so scared of the schools -do what’s right for your kid. If the kid needs meds -give it to him/her. If the kid doesn’t need meds -don’t be bullied into getting the kid meds because the school doesn’t know anything about Chinuch!May 15, 2012 4:46 am at 4:46 am #874212far eastMember
Well said health…for once we agree lolMay 15, 2012 7:34 am at 7:34 am #874213
I also agree with Health here. The condition exists but is often over-diagnosed and/or mistreated.May 15, 2012 7:59 am at 7:59 am #874214chocandpatienceMember
Agree with Health. I was going to write almost word-for-word what 42 did, but he got there first.May 15, 2012 10:24 am at 10:24 am #874215hockaroundtheclockMember
Look a squirrel! But seriously you know what ADD stands for; Attention,Deficit,Doughnuts!?May 15, 2012 11:33 am at 11:33 am #874216
I think ADD is very real. But I think often the source of the problem is the environment that child (or adult) is in. Often people can’t focus when their life is overwhelming. If a child has an overwhelming life in general, they can develop ADD. The younger the child is when life is overwhelming, the more ADD will stay with them since the brain gets used to tuning out of their environment. If a home life is hard for the child, they may be too distracted in school.
I think this can apply to adults as well. If life is overwhelming for whatever reason, these adults will have the symptoms of ADD especially if their childhood was hard too.
I’m sure people won’t agree with me. And I’m sure people will find actual cases where this doesn’t apply. But I’m equally sure this applies to many ADD children & adults.
Of course ADD medication will help the child/adult focus. But it’s important to get the proper help to either eliminate the part that is hard in the person’s life, or if that isn’t possible, then to teach them how to focus in the present and ignore what was in the past and what will be in the future and anything that is going on in the person’s life. I believe it is possible.May 15, 2012 12:05 pm at 12:05 pm #874217
As a P.S. I would like to mention there are children and adults who today are diagnosed with ADD when in reality they are ADDicted to the internet. (It may be apply to a small percent of ADD sufferers, but it is definitely a reality today.)May 15, 2012 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm #874218penguinmomMember
True ADHD has a physical cause; it is an underdevelopment of the pre-frontal cortex of the brain. It is as real as high blood pressure or a broken leg. However, yeshivas dont get anything about this issue. They dont care to educate themselves about helping the child inside or outside of the classroom. Just put ’em on meds and make sure the kid stays quiet or else. They also feel free to diagnose every kid that rowdy with ADHD. So the real cases get lumped in with the kids that just need some discipline and nobody gets a decent education.May 15, 2012 1:01 pm at 1:01 pm #874219
You see, when it comes to a scientific question, we all see that there’s a balance. The condition exists, must be mindful, yet sometimes over-diagnosed etc.May 15, 2012 1:49 pm at 1:49 pm #874220yungerman1Participant
working harder is right.
ADD does not exist anymore- and every mental health professional should know that. It is now classified as a subtype of ADHD.May 15, 2012 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #874221anonymrsParticipant
AD(H)D is very real. i know cuz i have it. it is also over-used as a diagnosis because its easy. medication is NOT always the answer, but dealing with it is 🙂 a child or adult who really DOES suffer must learn how to cope, how to focus, how to manage their life. my sons teacher tried to push me to medicate him this year, but i absolutely refused (among other things he only JUST turned 5 on pesach so he is REALLY young) thank god we didnt, because he has really matured in the last few months and he is doing really well on his own. we are really working with him on strategies for success, and that seems to be really working.
having ADHD definitely affects my day to day life….im a procrastinator, i forget to give my son lunch sometimes, im very bad when it comes to follow through so things like taking medication and vitamins EVERY day is really hard for me….
it really bugs me when people confuse “its over used” with “its not real.”May 15, 2012 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #874222
I’m astounded that people think this disorder actually doesn’t exist!
My son was tested for it by several leading doctors. One of them has a computerized program that tracks head movements and focusing capacity. He had a much higher statistical rate of head movements than a typically developing child and had a very narrow span of time that he was able to focus (minutes). This can be really challenging for a teacher and their student who is very intelligent and academically capable yet limited in this way.
Many ultra caring teachers lack the resources to invest in kids who need extra attention for their lack thereof.
Having a good heart and motivation is not sufficient to enable teachers to help these kids. Knowledge is required.
Misbehavior can sometimes be incorrectly or prematurely labeled ADHD. In fact, ODD can often accompany a diagnosis of ADHD, but not always. That’s why diagnosing it properly is so imperitive, both for the child/family and the school.
My son was suspected as being a troublemaker until an official diagnosis came in. At that points all involved developed a different perspective of him and began seeing him as a child who truly wants to please others, but has difficulty doing so and needs supports.
IMHO, important things for teachers to remember is that kids with ADHD are often academically very capable and should be held accountable (within reason). That means, expect them to do their work, but if you and other teachers give huge amounts, take into account it can take a kid two to three times as long as another kid to do it, so you might need to set your expectations in accordance by accepting a reduced quantity of work from the home (especially in a yeshiva where kids might not return home till 5/5:30 and have to bathe, eat dinner, and do homework, and get to bed by 7:30/8 ifthey’re young.
Keeping in contact regularly with parents to let them know how their kids are doing is very important. No one likes surprises, but most especially parents of kids who might need extra supports (and similarly, parents need to reach out to teachers).
Responsibilities that include recalling tasks (handing in papers daily) can be extra challenging, and can be easily resolved by a one word prompt (homework) or assigning a supportive buddy.
I would love to hear from educators their perspective.May 15, 2012 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #874223
ADHD is a physical phenomenon. A part of the brain (the prefrontal cortex) That acts like the conductor of an orchestra (controlling the “band” and telling everyone when it’s their turn to play) is affected and therefore, cannot work properly. Imagine if all the musicians played their parts whenever they wanted. It wouldn’t be music, it would be noise. It’s like there’s no leader helping them organize themselves. Impulses take over.
Medication can help slow them down enough to think things through. Maturity, self awareness, and repetitive training can eventually help their functioning also.
Meds are not the solution for everyone though. It depends how severely their lives are affected by this condition, and whether they can tolerate the meds.May 15, 2012 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #874224bb8Participant
UNLESS YOU HAVE LIVED WITH AN ADHD PERSON YOU CAN’T UNDERSTAND.
I have a husband and a daughter who have it. My daughter who in 1st grade use to be walking around or looking out the window half the time because she couldn’t stay in her seat. Now she is in high school and is using medication, she would rather not be on it but she needs it for her self esteem she says that it is the only thing that really works to help her cope with school.
It also doesn’t just disappear when they get older they just try to learn coping mechanism that help them. It doesn’t always work and it affects their jobs and marriages!!!!!May 15, 2012 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #874225HealthParticipant
computer -“But it’s important to get the proper help to either eliminate the part that is hard in the person’s life, or if that isn’t possible, then to teach them how to focus in the present and ignore what was in the past and what will be in the future and anything that is going on in the person’s life.”
I don’t know if you realize this but most people can’t change their circumstances. I don’t know if you are denial of this disorder -or in denial of anything called mental illness or what.
Your last part, I don’t know if you are aware, is one of the goals of therapy given by a trained professional. So if you meant to say that a kid or adult diagnosed with ADD/ADHD should seek therapy by a trained mental-health professional -this I agree with.
If you meant to say -that they can “just get over it by themselves” -this is utter Hogwash!May 16, 2012 10:44 am at 10:44 am #874226
Health: I was referring to adults changing the circumstances of a child that is having a rough time in their life. And if the circumstances can’t be changed then to get help to learn how to cope.May 16, 2012 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #874227NaftushMember
AD(H)D is definitely real and is not limited to children. It can even present in adulthood. Mine comes b”h without the “H” part but includes a fringe benefit: the ability to “hyper-concentrate” when it’s really necessary. I owe my life and livelihood to that ability and wouldn’t trade it for any medication.
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