July 31, 2019 11:21 am at 11:21 am #1767778
Most Yeshivas are part of a kehila, community, etc. Not for-profit business enterprises.July 31, 2019 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #1767824
“Not-for-profit” does NOT mean not responsible for paying its bills. Not-for profit schools, including those part of a “kehila”, still have to deal with the reality that revenues (from all sources including tuition, funds from other mosdos in the kehila and charitable giving) must equal or exceed expenses over any reasonable period of time. A parent must assume responsibility for paying his/her childrens’ tuition; its NOT the responsibility of the school. If you cannot afford the tuition at your preferred yeshiva, than find a lower cost school or consider some combination of home schooling your kids in limudei kodesh and public school/and or tutoring in basic secular studies.July 31, 2019 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #1767847
And what are parents who are dirt poor and cannot afford to pay any yeshiva’s tuition, are unable to raise the funds, and work hours or ability preclude home schooling, supposed to do?
Send their Yiddishe kinderlach to free public school?
We all know how Jewish children turn out after public school.July 31, 2019 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #1767873The little I knowParticipant
You are not being realistic. There is a huge percentage of the community that earns too little to pay tuition, especially if it is not discounted. Are you leaving these kids out to dry?
There is a desperate need to create mechanisms, other than bankrupting yeshivos, to insure that each child is placed appropriately. One should not shop for yeshivos to locate the cheapest one as one would do for a car or a piece of furniture. Yeshivos should not need to advertise in the media by quoting their tuition prices to compete. That’s absurd. I don’t think there is an easy answer. But your suggestion is so ridiculous it is sad.July 31, 2019 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #1767891
Edited You correctly acknowledge the laws of economics apply to yeshivos as they do to any other not-for-profit mosdos but then you turn around and assert that there is a “huge perctengage of the community” that earns too little to pay tuitiion”. Which is it?? Both cannot be true at the same time. Instead you call for some magical “mechanism” to bridge the funding gap. What “mechanism” are you talking about?? Should each school impose some type of “wealth tax” on the parents of the more affluent students to provide free tuition to those whoc cannot afford to pay. (Not that many yeshivos already have tuition surcharges that go to their scholarship funds)? If so, how much?? Should the tuition of the rabbonim and moros be cut even further?? Do you know of some big time baalei tzadakah who are ready to come forward with the needed funds? You reject as” ridiculous” the notions of parents scaling their school choices with their ability to pay, groups of parents forming their own home-schooling and tutoring cooperatives geared t affodability etc. What then is your solution? In some cases, it may mean that BOTH parents get a job, possibly hold a second job, or get the job skills to increase their compensation. There are difficult tradeoffs that have to be made and there is no magical fix to the problem as you seen to assert without any support.July 31, 2019 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #1767929👑RebYidd23Participant
Joseph, why is it worse for a school to reject students for being poor than for them to simply reject students arbitrarily?July 31, 2019 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #1767967Abba_SParticipant
Reb Yid In theory the yeshivas are not suppose to charge for teaching Torah studies at all so rejecting students due to their parents inability to pay tuition isn’t in the spirit of Torah law.
Speaking of denying Jewish children a yeshiva education, starting this September students not vaccinated can no longer use a religious exemptions, so they either get vaccinated, get a medical exemption, or they can no longer attend any school in the state. The problem is 4% of Jews are not vaccinated and previously used the religious exemption in order to attend yeshiva. There are about 165,000 yeshiva students making it 6,600 yeshiva students that can no longer attend yeshiva.
Both state and federal law require education be provided for all children age 6-16. NY state law requires that no student may attend school if they are not vaccinated unless they have a medical exemption. In order to get a medical exemption the patient’s immune system must be so deficient that the vaccine would be hazardous. Which if he is that sick he shouldn’t be out in public anyway. Students that are in prison or even developmentally challenged must be provided with an education. It’s therefor logical that these students will also have to be provided an education very similar to special ed students. Where are they going to get the money to pay for this? Especially since none of the school district planed for this when they were making their budget for the new school year.
This will cause problems for yeshivas as they will be losing 6,600 student some of whose parents generously contributed to these yeshivas beside the loss of income from their tuition. At the same time the school district are going to have to provide education for these 6,600 in a non school environment. Which means they have to teach each student separately and not even in the same building as two of them in the same building maybe considered a school. This will be very costly but the state ( school district) MUST provide this education service.July 31, 2019 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #1768007
Abba- did you even bother to listen to the responses you got on the other thread? Now you come here with a cut and paste of the same conversation. Is there any point in responding to you if you walk away with the same faulty thinking you started with?July 31, 2019 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #1767992
Although it may be a political and legal fantasy, the only “magic” solution to the “missing money” issue for yeshivos accommodating everyone regardless of ability to pay is for the country to give ALL parents a basic “child development credit” which they can use for either private school tuition, enrichment activities and special tutoring if their kids go to public school, or put into a 529 account for their kid’s college tuition.August 1, 2019 6:04 am at 6:04 am #1768026Avi KParticipant
So what should be done about deadbeats? I heard about one guy who claimed not to have any money. It all went for two cars, three vacations per year, etc.August 1, 2019 7:46 am at 7:46 am #1768024Abba_SParticipant
I do not cut and paste my posts. This country was founded on the principle of FREEDOM OF RELIGION, The First Amendment of the US Constitution grant us this right. But NY State has decided to limit this right by denying religious exemptions which in turn will result in thousands of yeshiva students being denied a yeshiva education.
I realize that there is a bias against those who don’t vaccinate but are they not Jews is there Torah learning worthless and should be treated as human beings
This is the beginning of the eroding of religious rights so eventually you wouldn’t be able to practice your religion as you see fit rather only as the state sees fit.
I also realize that this may not be the forum to express these ideas as the courts will have to decide this question., Which court I don’t know? Whether the court of public opinion, as next year is a presidential election year or the state or federal court.August 1, 2019 8:26 am at 8:26 am #1768083
You have to stop calling it freedom of religion when YOUR own religion dictates that everyone should vaccinate right now, even those rebbes who paskened otherwise. It is NOT religion exempting the vaccine.
Point two – it is dishonest to write off the responses as a bias against non vaxxing, Do you dare accuse every rov (except the one nobody has ever named), of paskening according to bias? Shame on you.August 1, 2019 9:17 am at 9:17 am #1768093👑RebYidd23Participant
It is freedom of religion, but for JWs, not Jews.August 1, 2019 9:34 am at 9:34 am #1768097
I’m not sure there is any value in dragging in the anti-vaxing argument to this thread other than to further complicate an already complex issue with few obvious solutions. Parents who choose to not vaccinate their kids obviously know they will be denied entry to the school system (as several states have done) so presumably are prepared to home-school their kids. If they are smart enough to know better than the doctors and rabbonim who say vaccination is a chiyuv, than they obviously are smart enough to have planned for alternative education for the precious yinglach.August 1, 2019 9:48 am at 9:48 am #1768099samklein30Participant
Where does Rav Moshe Feinstein say that admission cards is stolen money? what chelek in Igros Moshe? what number tshuva?August 1, 2019 9:59 am at 9:59 am #1768155
GH – 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼August 1, 2019 11:41 am at 11:41 am #1768199CTLAWYERParticipant
Your logic is faulty
The law says the children must be provided an education. It doesn’t say the state has to pay for it if you don’t follow their rules.
NO vaccine, home school at your own expense. The school systems don’t have to provide homebound teachersAugust 1, 2019 11:55 am at 11:55 am #1768206SoshaParticipant
“Stolen money” is logical.
The yeshivas have all kinds of fundraisers and appeal to private benefactors to somewhat close the gap. These donors are under the impression that their money is being used to subsidize the tuition of those children whose parents can not pay. That is equivalent to stolen money.August 1, 2019 12:26 pm at 12:26 pm #1768209
Sosha said it best.August 1, 2019 12:30 pm at 12:30 pm #1768215
oh really joseph? you now subscribe to motzei shem rah on countless institutions around the world? good move.August 1, 2019 12:31 pm at 12:31 pm #1768210
Sosha: Huhhh? When determining the amount of tuition parents must provide for their children, a yeshiva factors in all of the charitable donations, grants etc. included in its annual budget. If there are sufficient funds, which there rarely are, then the tuition can be reduced to zero. In the real world, there is some minimum amount they will have to get from ALL parents in order for them to meet their payroll and keep the lights on. Requiring that parents pay that minimum amount is NOT equivalent to stolen money. Indeed, by not requiring them to pay, they would be stealing from teachers who would not be paid on time (since there would be no money in the payroll account) as well as from other parents who are already paying their full share and would be called upon to contribute even more to avoid having the yeshiva close its doors. In simple terms, parents MUST take responsibility to pay for their own children. You just don’t have children and then absolve yourself from supporting them. Assuming the school has done whatever fundraising it can for its scholarship fund, Its then the individual parents’ responsibility to go out and find some baal tzadakah to assist them in paying their tuition or to get a job or a higher paying job or work longer hours so they can afford to pay their bills.August 1, 2019 1:04 pm at 1:04 pm #1768269
Syag, no idea what you’re ranting about. All I commented was on Sosha’s comment immediately above mine where he put it behind succinctly and correctly.August 1, 2019 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm #1768291SoshaParticipant
Please don’t misunderstand me. I realize I cut my sentence too short. I did not mean that parents shouldn’t pay at all. I did say subsidize. However, I stand strong on my opinion that schools must let their benefactors know how and on what their money is spent.August 1, 2019 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #1768319
“I stand strong on my opinion that schools must let their benefactors know how and on what their money is spent. ”
you expressed no such opinion. What you said was:
” These donors are under the impression that their money is being used to subsidize the tuition of those children whose parents can not pay”
You state that the money is ‘stolen’ because the donors are “under the impression” that it is subsidizing tuition but that it is not. That is Motzei Shem Rah on a huge huge number of Jews. Besides the fact that you have NO way of knowing if it is true AT ALL, you absolutely have NO claim to it happening as a rule. If you and Joseph are unclear on hilchos lashon hora (as has been indicated in the past), then look it up.
And if you want to do yourself a real favor, either qualify it with a “in my imaginary world” or retract it.August 1, 2019 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #1768329
Sasha: Most of them do. All yeshivas have an annual budget that should be accessible to anyone making material charitable donations. If a benefactor is denied such information, he/she should suspend their giving until it is provided to them.August 1, 2019 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #1768557zahavasdadParticipant
Joseph is under the impression that yeshivas have people who gives millions of dollars a year to the yeshivas, that just isnt true
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