November 10, 2020 11:31 am at 11:31 am #1918356
There is no question about it Donald Trump is very popular in the Frum crowd [ ok Charlie Hall Riverdale withstanding] from holding pep rallies and motorcades, cars with signs and flags, lawn signs for blocks upon blocks, and winning the Frum vote overwhelmingly, from Fallsburg, Monroe, Monsey, New Square, Boro Park, Flatbush, KGH, Forest Hills, Staten Island, Far Rockaway, 5 Towns to Lakewood anyplace where there was a heavy concertation of Frum people he won and won big like 2,3,4,5 to 1.
In all of the presidential elections that remember I cant recall such enthusiasm that was shown across the entire frum spectrum, just wondering on the reasons [please don’t say it was his tweets doubt if he had 100 followers in the Frum crowd.] Just some thoughts of somethings that never occurred before that may had contributed to such support.
1. Has a Frum son in law
2. Had done business with frum firms.
3. Had Frum people working in the West Wing of the White House.
4. Had Frum people work for him in the private sector
5. Appointed a Frum Ambassador in Israel
6. Reversed the Iran Deal
7. Moved the embassy to Jerusalem
8. Commuted SM Rubaskin
9. Signed First Chance law
10. Stated the settlements were not illegal under international law.
Any other thoughts as to why the frum crowd was so enthusiastic for Trump?November 10, 2020 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #1918522Reb EliezerParticipant
Sorry, it does not reflect well on the frum that they overlook the fact of Trump being a lowlife.November 10, 2020 12:23 pm at 12:23 pm #1918523GadolhadorahParticipant
What you call “the frum crowd” should have been equally alarmed about a much longer list of how Trump has defiled the office of the President, engaged in virtually nonstop hateful and racist rhetoric and bullying from the moment he took the oath of office and jeopardized America’s relationship with our closest allies. If lining up a bunch of minivans on the Garden State Parkway and honking horns shows “support” by the “frum crowd” for this behavior, than perhaps thats not where the “frum” crowd should be. There were many other viable Republican political leaders who could have achieved most of Trump’s positive policy outcomes you cite without leaving an everlasting stench in the oval office. iNovember 10, 2020 12:46 pm at 12:46 pm #1918538ujmParticipant
Who do you think votes more intelligently, Torah Jews, who voted overwhelmingly for Trump, or the black population, who voted overwhelmingly for Biden?November 10, 2020 1:27 pm at 1:27 pm #1918540
@Reb E & GH, this is a whole other thread about the character vs issue, this deals about the level of his support not about him as a person.
GH, the support went beyond beeping minivans on the GSP, look at the election returns.November 10, 2020 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #1918611jackkParticipant
It is also still popular in the frum communities and media to believe that Trump will be taking the oath of office on January 20, 2021.
If that turns out to be true, I will believe the reasons you sited for the enthusiasm.
It that turns out to be false, then your reasons are not the real reasons and you will need to come up with a new reason which might surprise you. (and ujm)November 10, 2020 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #1918672☕️coffee addictParticipant
If Biden does become president (hopefully not, Hashem’s salvation is in the blink of an eye) it will be because of the rallies!
Don’t you think we’ve come too close to the goyim?
What happened last time that happened? Hitler Ym”s and the time before that was HamanNovember 10, 2020 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #1918715silentmoisheParticipant
Do you use a plumber who is an upstanding wonderful person but a lousy plumber, or a guy who is of lousy character, but knows how to fix the plumbing very well?
Trump was a miserable character but he did some very good work.November 11, 2020 7:25 am at 7:25 am #1918731NonImpeditiRationeCogitationisParticipant
@UJM It is perfectly reasonable for a Black person to not vote for a dyed-in-the-wool racist white supremacist. Conversely, it is perfectly reasonable for a racist to vote for Trump.November 11, 2020 7:26 am at 7:26 am #1918746charliehallParticipant
“Do you use a plumber who is an upstanding wonderful person but a lousy plumber, or a guy who is of lousy character, but knows how to fix the plumbing very well?”
I actually had to fire a plumber who was a great plumber but a sleazebag in his personal life and decided he only wanted to be paid in cash. My Rav had quoted Rav Soloveitchik z’tz’l as saying that it is asur to do business with unethical people.November 11, 2020 7:27 am at 7:27 am #1918747charliehallParticipant
“Hitler Ym”s and the time before that was Haman”
Hitler didn’t really have Jewish support. But Mussolini did. And Trump is a lot like Mussolini, not Hitler.November 11, 2020 7:28 am at 7:28 am #1918768ruvainParticipant
when you use the phrase “frum” do you mean Shomer Shabbos? If so, doesnt that disqualify the “frum people in the west wing?November 11, 2020 7:33 am at 7:33 am #1918826Alyosha KaramazovParticipant
I think one possibility is that being frum today is incompatible with the perceived liberal obsession with feelings. Maybe this is different in the chassidishe velt (I can only speak to my own experience in the yeshivishe velt), but frum lives focus on action. We judge each other by our actions and believe Hashem will do the same achar meah ve-esrim. The liberal world has moved in the other direction – you can change your gender if that’s the way you feel, you can be label someone a racist if you feel they channeled micro-aggressions toward you, and your bad behavior can be excused due to things like difficult childhoods and historical crimes against you or your people. (FWIW, as a liberal, I hold these positions and can advocate for them any day, but that’s not the point of this post.)
So I can see how it would be refreshing to have a president who is the epitome of action over feelings. But this should give us pause. Trump demonstrates what can happen to a person if they are totally disconnected from their feelings. You become an empty shell, unable to care for others or to understand others- and, perhaps more importantly, to understand yourself.November 11, 2020 9:42 am at 9:42 am #1918853catch yourselfParticipant
Charlie Hall –
I applaud you for doing business only with honest people, and I agree that you had a good reason to end your business relationship with that plumber.
I would just point out that the particular character flaw you mentioned is one which was directly related to the business aspect of your relationship with him. You didn’t fire him because of his vulgar language, which was silentmoishe’s point.November 11, 2020 10:54 am at 10:54 am #1918904
@Ruvain, Frum is generally used to describe an Orthodox Jew a/k/a a Shomer Shabbos, Avi Berkowitz was the first “Frum” person who worked in the west wing.November 11, 2020 11:26 am at 11:26 am #1918920☕️coffee addictParticipant
I stand by my comments that
1) Charlie can’t be the real Charlie Hall
2) this Charlie Hall should go into stand up comedy
Mussolini wouldn’t even come close to recognizing the Gilman heights and yerushalayim
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