February 14, 2011 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #595026
how long should he have to wait? How long is too long, and when is a retraction justified?February 14, 2011 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #741438
I think everyone deserves a week.
Retraction, are you no longer interested because they are doing an extra-special digging? Just move on to the next one.February 14, 2011 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #741439
A week should be plenty time for both parties. I know of a girl who had a situation recently where the boy did not get back to the shadchan for two months. I feel that in such a case, any other shidduch coming her way in the interim, should be fair game to be made. A guy who can’t get his act together even to say “not interested” after a period of several weeks, is clearly single for a reason.February 14, 2011 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #741440BobchkaParticipant
and how long did the boy take to look into the girl. if the girl only got the name after the boy said yes, which is very common. i think you should at least give the girl an equal amount of time.February 14, 2011 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm #741441HadaLXTPMember
It goes both ways.February 14, 2011 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #741442
Why should people get a week? Let’s say a person has 4-6 references. Even if they have trouble getting through to people, it shouldn’t take more than two days. One week in my mind is absurd. I would add that the older the person is, the less time it should take them to do their research.February 14, 2011 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #741443
48 hours, not including shabbos. After that you move on, and you do not need to even tell the shadchan.
I know of a girl who had a situation recently where the boy did not get back to the shadchan for two months.
Assuming a girl asked a shadchan to redt a shidduch to a boy, the boy is under no obligation to get back at all. Usually, the boy is not even told that the girl was behind it. A shidduch begins when the boy says yes.
It is a good idea to not answer in less than 3 days so that you don’t look desperate.
That is ridiculous.February 14, 2011 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #741444
A girl usually does not know when a shidduch is presented to a boy and they shouldn’t. Once the boy said yes, you have to give the girl’s side at least a week to work on it. Anything under a week is ridiculous and it puts too much pressure on the family for an answer. A week is a respectable amount of time to get information and make a decision. If they take longer than a week, they risk the chance that the boy says yes to another girl as well and he won’t be available when they get back to the shadchan.February 14, 2011 11:36 pm at 11:36 pm #741445
A week is a fair amount of time. For the boy and the girl. Any longer is not fair and just plain rude.February 14, 2011 11:44 pm at 11:44 pm #741446
48 hours, not including shabbos. After that you move on, and you do not need to even tell the shadchan. Assuming a girl asked a shadchan to redt a shidduch to a boy, the boy is under no obligation to get back at all. Usually, the boy is not even told that the girl was behind it. A shidduch begins when the boy says yes. Yes. Whatever. That is ridiculous.
Yes, absolutely ridiculous.February 15, 2011 12:42 am at 12:42 am #741448
I you guys for real? I would never have waited a week. If I didn’t hear back after 3-4 days, I would have moved right on. For real.February 15, 2011 12:49 am at 12:49 am #741449
Do people understand that they are saying yes (or no) to date? Not actually getting married? Exactly what extent of research is required to make sure spending three hours with someone is a good idea. Maybe daters wouldn’t be so burnt out if they treated ideas more casually. Acting as if every person you’re redt to requires a life-altering decision is an awful way to date.February 15, 2011 12:49 am at 12:49 am #741450
PBA, honestly you can’t control whether or not people get back to you quickly or not. Everyone is “important” these days. In addition, people travel, have busy lives are always on the run. Just because you make your phone calls b’zrizus does not mean that people call you back b’zrizus. Especially if you are calling Rabbonim or Roshei Yeshivas.February 15, 2011 12:52 am at 12:52 am #741451
Popa: I feel that a week is a fair amount of time to make a decision. Sometimes, when you call the references, either they are not available to speak, or out for the evening or the line is busy.
Usually, there are a few numbers listed for references. It takes time. However, longer than a week is just plain rude.February 15, 2011 1:16 am at 1:16 am #741452apushatayidParticipant
A good private detective should take no more than 72 hours to vette a prospective boy/girl.February 15, 2011 1:45 am at 1:45 am #741453popcornMember
You are not just saying yes to a date. You might be saying yes to a marriage. Once the couple starts dating and they like each other…what then…you start doing more research that you haven’t done yet bec. you needed to answer in 2-4 days. By then it’s too late. It’s best to do all your proper research before the couple starts to date (one week sounds fair , especially cause Friday-erev Shabbos and Shabbos day are not ideal days for calling people to do research) …and of course always do Dor Yesharim BEFORE any Dating. Hatzlocha Rabba to all!February 15, 2011 2:14 am at 2:14 am #741454
I’m not really analyzing this under the rubric of rudeness, or even how long it takes to make your calls. I’m thinking more about how long you can expect the guy to wait for you.
If you told the guy upfront it would be a week before he would hear back, he might agree to wait, or might say forget it. I would have said forget it. I’ve got others who will go out tonight- I don’t want to wait.
So why is it fair to expect the guy to agree to something implicitly which he wouldn’t agree to explicitly. And if you think he would agree, why not tell him?February 15, 2011 2:18 am at 2:18 am #741455
PBA, that’s just the nature of the beast, that’s how its done. That is dating etiquette.February 15, 2011 2:21 am at 2:21 am #741456
Once the couple starts dating and they like each other…what then…By then it’s too late.
Wow, that sounds horrible!February 15, 2011 2:27 am at 2:27 am #741457
Well, this is my dating etiquette.February 15, 2011 2:29 am at 2:29 am #741458
I personally felt that a week is a fair amount of time. I could be wrong but it does take time to make the necessary phone calls. One day to wait seems a little “eager” to me. Just my opinion.February 15, 2011 2:54 am at 2:54 am #741460cshapiroMember
hey pops when u say 48 hours does that mean business hours or literally 48 hours. i think a guy should check refs (i find that most of mine dont, cause otherwise my friends call me to nag for details lol) but anyways as its happened to me, if something else comes up in the interim, i dont feel obligated to wait, and i didnt …. (eventho he wasnt a football player!!!)February 15, 2011 2:56 am at 2:56 am #741461
oomis: That is a very unnatural situation. Was all that clearly communicated to the guy? Because the guy’s assumption is that you are simply calling with another “idea”, and that there is not shibud to get back to you with a definite answer. In fact, often there cannot be a definite answer, because you would go out with her, but would rather go out with someone else.
I don’t know why guys think they have a right to say yes first.
So go insist on that. See where it gets you.February 15, 2011 3:01 am at 3:01 am #741462
I mean actual 48 hours. I don’t feel like waiting longer than that. If you can’t say yes in that long, and won’t risk one date, then say no.February 15, 2011 3:15 am at 3:15 am #741463
As it happens I am the Queen of Fast Responses, I usually only need a couple of hours w the boys info to decide if its for me or not….
That being said, I realize that not everyone is as decisive and able as I am 😉 SO being that boys, in my experience, NEVER take less than a week (in a real shidduch situation) the girl is ENTITLED to one (1) week.
The amount of Gaavah a boy has to insist an answer within 2 days or else he is moving on to the next name, after he spent 3 weeks turning over every invisible leaf, is mind blowing.
(Dont say its a mans world, because there ARE men out there w middos too.)February 15, 2011 3:20 am at 3:20 am #741464
Yes but; when the guy spent the three weeks, there was nobody waiting for an answer who was unable to date anyone until receiving an answer.February 15, 2011 3:26 am at 3:26 am #741465
Would her 1 week of checking not be faster than his 3 weeks of renewed investigations?February 15, 2011 3:29 am at 3:29 am #741466
If I felt that I needed one (1) week to do research, I would understand that girl would be entitled to that as well. Obviously that’s not how I feel, and is thus clearly not what I practice. It’s not a middos thing, it’s a practicality thing. Perhaps the ones with middos issues are the ones who feel that every attribute in a potential date (…spouse) needs to be perfect. I’d say the ones (1’s) who take two (2) days for research are the “better” ones.February 15, 2011 3:40 am at 3:40 am #741467
If you are not taking a week then you should be able to expect a quick response. I think the “rule” should be however long you spent checking, you should anticipate the other side taking that long.February 15, 2011 3:45 am at 3:45 am #741468
The problem with that “rule” is that the other side most likely does not know how long you spent researching them. My point is that you rarely ever need more than two days.February 15, 2011 4:39 am at 4:39 am #741472
You are kidding, right? Read the post which starts “It goes both ways”February 15, 2011 5:35 am at 5:35 am #741474
How about we compromise on 4 days and call it a night? 🙂February 15, 2011 5:40 am at 5:40 am #741475
Has anyone ever retracted a “Yes” b/c the other side was taking too much time?February 15, 2011 5:54 am at 5:54 am #741476
Has anyone ever retracted a “Yes” b/c the other side was taking too much time?
I once wanted to (after we had gone out a couple of times, she said she needs a week to think about it) but I was advised not to, because despite the fact that she displayed a lack of consideration, I might get a bad reputation if I called it off.February 15, 2011 5:56 am at 5:56 am #741477
No, but when they call back they are usually met with “Oh he has just gotten a yes back from someone else so he is busy right now”. You never know if that is true or not.February 15, 2011 6:21 am at 6:21 am #741478
No, but when they call back they are usually met with “Oh he has just gotten a yes back from someone else so he is busy right now”. You never know if that is true or not.
Do you think that, if true, the boy had a right to say yes to two girls at the same time and see which one said yes first?February 15, 2011 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #741479
“Do you think that, if true, the boy had a right to say yes to two girls at the same time and see which one said yes first?”
Only two? Why not 5? Why even bother w the list, when he can date them all at once?
I have an idea lets negate all self respect that Girls have, because running after men is not enough, inflate the already over-inflated egos of at best average Boys, and turn them in to pimps. Fantastic.February 15, 2011 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #741481
“oomis: That is a very unnatural situation. Was all that clearly communicated to the guy? Because the guy’s assumption is that you are simply calling with another “idea”, and that there is not shibud to get back to you with a definite answer. In fact, often there cannot be a definite answer, because you would go out with her, but would rather go out with someone else.” (PBA)
The young man was redt a shidduch. His parents were given the girl’s profile. They WANTED their son to be redt a shidduch and he is 30 already. The shadchan and the boy’s family had spoken back and forth, they wanted this info and that, and it was given, within the week. Despite the shadchan’s calls after a week or so, they did not call back. After a couple more weeks passed, the shadchan called saying she did not want to sound like a nudge, but a yes or no was needed. Still no call back. After a few more weeks, and only because the girl said she was no longer interested in someone who was so discourteous, there was no further inquiry on her part. And then, the boy finally responded with a no, after it was all over anyway.
There was no miscommunication, no misunderstanding. The boy was not then nor had he been previously “busy” with anyone – far from it. And any boy who views getting back to a shadchan with a yes or no as a “shibud” – is probably not ready to get married. Someone who really wants to be married and have a wife, home, and family, views it as a MATANA, not a shibud.
JMO.February 15, 2011 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #741482
Do you think that, if true, the boy had a right to say yes to two girls at the same time and see which one said yes first?
Yes, I actually do. That’s the way things were done when I was in my dating years, and the process was so much easier for everyone. I would probably not be married to my husband had I not said yes to the first date, when he called me as I was leaving my office to prepare for a date with another guy (who turned out to be totally not for me). If I would have said no (with the honest excuse that I was “busy”), he most likely would not have called again to see if I was now free. In those days girls did not ask for a guy’s number to call him back, or text message, or tweet, or e-mail or anything. But I do know that girls did not sit around waiting for guys to get back to the shadchan with a reply. If another guy came along or another girl was suggested in the interim – the boys and girls went out with the newly-suggested people. If they became involved and the original guy finally got off his chair and made a decision, it was often too late for him.February 15, 2011 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #741483
I personally felt that a week is a fair amount of time. I could be wrong but it does take time to make the necessary phone calls. One day to wait seems a little “eager” to me. Just my opinion”
Doodle jump, I agree with you. Sometimes you cannot reach the person you are trying to call. But when one week stretches to two weeks or more, it is too long, unless the other person is out of the country.February 15, 2011 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #741484apushatayidParticipant
“Has anyone ever retracted a “Yes” b/c the other side was taking too much time?”
Yes. They must have felt very highly of me though (I paid my references well!) because they appealed to my Rosh Yeshiva that I reconsider. After all that, she said no after one date anyway 🙂February 15, 2011 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #741485
Imo, the only necessary questions are those concerning health and financial issue, since they are dispositive. All other queries (personality, etc.), never really give an accurate picture and are certainly not a license to make a person wait on your uncertainty.February 15, 2011 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #741486
If a boy says “yes” he should give the girl a week to answer, if she doesn’t answer after a week, there is no reason why he can’t give a “yes” to another girl and take it from there. If the second girl gets back to him first there is no reason why he shouldn’t go out with her first.
Hashem is in charge, we are only players in HIS game. If it is meant to be that the first girl is the one for him then the date with the second girl will not work out. On the other hand, if it does that is what was bashert for them. The point is that you have to be mentchlich but not stupid. You can’t wait around for every answer because it could be a “yes” or a “no”. So after waiting a week which is fair and you don’t get an answer move on to the next one.February 15, 2011 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #741487
If either party can agree to see multiple prospective spouses at the same time and go out with whomever says yes first, wouldn’t the issue of taking too much time be moot? Let someone take as much time as they feel they need to make a decision, they’re not hindering the other party anyway.
This was the point I was getting at, I wasn’t trying to compromise anyone’s respect.February 15, 2011 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #741488
DY, the only problem is that “everyone” takes it personally. If you take too long to get back to the shadchan with a “yes” everyone’s ego gets out of whack. If you take a long time checking out prospects you should tell the shadchan “she is in middle of something at the moment I will get back to you if she becomes available”. In that way the boy that says yes and his family have no idea that you are taking 2 weeks to check them out. Of course you are risking the opportunity that he won’t be available when you are ready, but you take that risk anyway when you take too long to give an answer.
Shidduchim is such a sensitive balancing act.February 15, 2011 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #741489
I understand that, but dont you see that it does?
Giving a “Yes” to two girls is a game, its called Tag. Whoever catches the Boy first gets him, but what of the other girl, who took an extra day? In your scenario we werent even talking weeks, it could have been hours or minutes!
Boys may think that they are clever and they are going to “play the game right” but when you are playing w someone’s emotions there are no winners only losers, on both ends. Because although you may have snagged the Prize, Hash-m is still keeping score of who you hurt along the way, and in Yiddishkeit the ends dont justify the means.February 15, 2011 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #741490
True. But it seems that we agree that the issue brought up by PBA of making the other party wait is a non-issue (that’s assuming it’s okay to give multiple yeses, I don’t know what modern protocol is and I’m not too comfortable with it). I think he was assuming that if a boy says yes, he should not go out with someone else until the girl gives an answer.
As far as how to push off the shadchan/other side tactfully, although if necessary, “muttar l’shanos mipnei hashalom”, wouldn’t it be better to say that it’s taking time to reach the people you want to speak to? I suppose it depends on how much time you are taking.
I just saw your post now, so I’m adding to this one. I am not advocating saying yes to more than one at a time; it seemed to me that Aries was, and Oomis seems to as well. I personally think there should be some time that the boy should wait, for your reasons. I was actually half serious before when I said four days; there needs to be a balance between reasonable time to do research and how long a boy has to stay in limbo while awaiting an answer.February 15, 2011 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #7414911dayatatimeParticipant
I once, by mistake, gave a “yes” to two girls at the same time. One of my mentors told me to cancle on the one who I said yes to second, and my Rebbe told me to go out with both and that it won’t be an issue
My Rebbe was right, they both didn’t work outFebruary 15, 2011 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #741492
Sac, you touched upon a very serious issue with huge consequences. YOU have to be so totally careful NOT to hurt anyone during shiduchim. There are so many stories of couples who are childless that have to go back and ask mechilah from the ones they hurt during the shiduch process. It is no joke and something that has happened over and over again. BE VERY CAREFUL.
About a year or so ago the father of a young girl my son dated very seriously when he was 19 years old called me. (MY son is now 30). He said his daughter was married (and I know to whom) and they had only one child but for some reason that was it. His Rav suggested that she call my son and ask mechilah from him. The father made them break up because I said that I had no objection to the shidduch (they met in college) but that there was no way I would allow him to marry before he was 20. I just felt he was not mature enough and needed to work on himself in order to be a good husband. I told this to his Rosh Yeshiva and actually told the Rosh Yeshiva that although I never met the young lady I spoke to her on the phone and I felt that the Rosh needed to work with my son to smooth out his rough edges.
At any rate the father got tzehitz and said his daughter was ready then and there and he didn’t want her shlepping around and broke them up. At this point he was concerned about his “couple” and wanted to make a connection between them so that he could be moichel her. I told him there was no way I would allow her to call my son and bring ghosts into his marriage. I assured him that my son was extremely happy in his marriage and that he had 3 children and does not give his daughter a second thought. I assured him that he was completely moichel her if not right away then for sure the day of his wedding when he was moichel everyone and any one that hurt him and that it was not because of my son that she was in that situation. I bentched him that he should have great nachas from this couple and from all his children and grandchildren. We never heard from them again.February 15, 2011 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #741493
Yes, if you think the guy does not have to wait after he says “yes”, then we are not talking to each other.
If the guy is free to go, I don’t see why the girl has to answer ever. Why should she answer yes or no? If she ever decides to go out with him, they will call him up. (Similar to what I think about when a shadchan calls a guy first.)
As it happens, the guy is not allowed to date someone else after saying yes to someone. That is why we are discussing when the “yes” expires.
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