April 27, 2011 5:48 am at 5:48 am #596464
There are some frum Yidden who travel around the world, looking for frei Yidden who don’t know anything about Yiddishkeit, and they teach them the mitzvos etc. In some cases, the frei will become baalei teshuva. In other cases they will say “no, thanks” and revert to their secular ways.
IMHO, anyone who truly wants to find the emes, will. There’s the internet nowadays where one can research anything they want.
Of course, we should be mekarev secular jews and make a kiddush Hashem. And of course answer their questions, when they’re really looking for answers. But to go around on a mission to turn all frei Yidden into frum Yidden can sometimes only make matters worse; being that now they’re oiver on every aveirah they were made aware of.
What do you think?April 27, 2011 8:04 am at 8:04 am #761859
Chevrah Adas KorachMember
There is nothing wrong with helping others, if thats the intention. if its about *my* way, *my* moshiach, its worseApril 27, 2011 8:32 am at 8:32 am #761860
And when Reb Chiya wrote and travelled and taught Torah, why couldn’t he depend on the fact that if they were interested they would find him? To make Kiruv into a problem is turning things on their head. If you don’t feel up to doing it yourself that’s fine, but to go another couple of steps and say that it’s a bad thing is over the edge.April 27, 2011 2:36 pm at 2:36 pm #761861
Avram in MDParticipant
Speaking only from my personal experience as a BT, my neshama was pulling at me since I was a kid; however, misconceptions about Orthodoxy and Orthodox Jews was a huge barrier. I literally feared Orthodox Jews – I thought they looked down on me, considered me inferior, and wanted nothing to do with me.
It was a combination of finding resources and learning (finding authentically frum books is difficult if you are not frum! Non-frum sources have a lot printed on frumkeit, unfortunately) and small religious interactions with Orthodox Jews, culminating with approaching an Orthodox rabbi, that helped chip away the barrier for me.
So I agree with you, perhaps non-frum Jews don’t need a lecture, they don’t need to be told that they are losing their chelek in Olam Haba because they do X (when they honestly don’t know of X, even if told). What they need is a smile, a hand to guide them through a mitzvah and a hearty “Amein” to show them that the mitzvah meant something to Hashem and to Orthodox Jewry.April 27, 2011 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #761862
I’ve been taught that the best kiruv is to be an example of all the good things in the Torah.April 27, 2011 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #761863
I would not call it aggresive kiruv, its active kiruv.April 27, 2011 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #761864
Is the OP for real?
Can you tell me how many of the many thousands of people who became frum over the last 40 years, would’ve become frum if they had no help?
Maybe we close Aish And Ohr Somayach because the BT’s should do their own work and get no help.
Maybe we should even get rid of all English Torah material, because if BT’s want help, they should go to the source.
No one ‘makes’ anyone frum. You can show and assist. But ‘make’ someone frum? ridiculous. Stupid. Do I need to go on!April 27, 2011 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #761865
“IMHO, anyone who truly wants to find the emes, will.”
….and if you’re “honest opinion” is wrong?April 27, 2011 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #761866
“Maybe we close Aish And Ohr Somayach because the BT’s should do their own work and get no help.”
No, read your own words. These organizations help the BT, who for the most part already have the spark. They don’t create the BT from nothing, as in “Are you Jewish?”April 27, 2011 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #761867
I dont think that anyone can deny the amazing work that Chabad does. You may have philosophical and Hashkafic differences but the Avodas Hakodesh that they do on the scale that they do it, is astounding.
In the same vein Aish Hatorah and Ohr Somayach have reached out and returned hundreds (thousands?) of our brothers to Yiddishkeit, no doubt that these organizations/Yeshivos are absolutely amazing.
I dated a BT who strongly felt that these Yeshivos, who *I* have the utmost respect for, are mass brainwashing centers. So, to each their own.
FWIW, I believe that those who are seeking out the truth will find it with a special Hashgacha Pratis in a way thats tailor made for them.April 27, 2011 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #761868
Yes Hashgacha Pratis plays a big role, but we also have to do hishtadlus.
It’s our fault if someone looking for the truth, doesn’t find it, because we never reached out to them and let them see even a single ray of it.April 28, 2011 1:12 am at 1:12 am #761869
Thats why if you re-read my post you will see that I said ‘those who are seeking out’ that being the Hishtadlus. You cant do someones Hishtadlus for them, Hash-m helps those who help themselves.April 28, 2011 2:02 am at 2:02 am #761870
Sometimes you have to put yiddishkeit “out there”, so a seeker knows that it is an option.
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