November 3, 2019 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #1796859knafaymParticipant
buying a second seat is kind of silly.
Most airlines will overbook whenever possible esp. elal
You’ll just lose your money and get an uninvited friend.November 3, 2019 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #1796863interjectionParticipant
“the seat change request rather than to sit next to the same gender is instead to sit away from a cranky child, sit next to a family member seated elsewhere or to sit closer to the exit to quicker catch a connecting flight.”
I’ve requested at times to switch seats so that my family can sit together. Sometimes the person has agreed and there have been times that the person has refused. It is extremely upsetting when the person refuses to switch, but I have never, and I would never made them feel bad about it. I obviously have never made a scene about it.
I don’t think anyone here is offended by the request to switch, even if it is for religious reasons. I think that people get upset when religious people forget to have derech eretz when making these requests, and when they seem to be demanding rather than requesting.November 3, 2019 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #1796870☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
I don’t think anyone here is offended by the request to switch, even if it is for religious reasons.
I wish you were right.November 3, 2019 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #1796878interjectionParticipant
“I wish you were right.”
I said “here”, meaning the coffee room.November 3, 2019 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #1796897☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
I wish it were the case that nobody in the coffee room is intolerant of someone being more religious than them.November 3, 2019 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #1796904GadolhadorahParticipant
Asking to switch seats for an equivalent seat is fine and the person being asked is free to agree or decline. It takes real chutzpah, though to request someone who has paid for a premium seat or booked early to get an aisle seat to take your middle seat for ANY reason unless it is mamash a real emergency (e.g. accompanying an ill travel companion etc.) . A preference to avoid sitting next to a woman or wanting to keep the family together is NOT an emergency.November 3, 2019 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #1796931David YParticipant
Just to re-iterate that being somewhat physically proximate to “a women’s pinky” is not the primary source of tumah, but the looking and thinking… which can occur from a distance, as alluded to in the passage you quoted from the Shulchan Aruk
משם חפר אכל למרחוק עיניו יביטו
איוב לט: כט
The other point being that we are in Galut, and as someone not living in the U.S.A. I would make the point that it is a major mistake for people to treat it as some sort of Aretz haSheni. Being too comfortable and expecting halachic conformity with secular society and visa versa is a major danger and mistake which I equate the generally comfortable conditions experienced there as a major point of stumbling.
There are not separate paths to tread on there for men and women as once was found in Jerusalem and the State of Israel too is largely secular.
The phenomenon of immodestly dressed women can be a challenge but also a unique opportunity to serve Hashem by not looking at them. As I said, if you have already made it through the city and the Terminal without seeing anything inappropriate, then it should be relatively easy to sit quietly by a window reading a book.November 3, 2019 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #1796948
Joseph, I would never give up my seat to sit next to a crying baby. And I have never seen anyone do so. Unless, of course you have a better seat to offer for the exchange. So I suggest you buy a business class seat and offer it to a coach flier if the occasion arises. It would be a small price to pay to avoid a lav if that is your view.November 3, 2019 9:53 pm at 9:53 pm #1796949
Also, it would be useful if the airlines would identify which seats were selected by people who do not shower or use deodorant. Or by people who need the toilet alot. Or need to do their davening out of their seats. Or need to unwrap mounds of plastic wrap from their special foods. Or who need to walk around the plane looking for people they know.November 4, 2019 9:00 am at 9:00 am #1797031JosephParticipant
cherrybim: What do you mean by if it is my view? Please explain your understanding of the meaning of “צריך אדם להתרחק מהנשים מאד מאד”.November 4, 2019 10:54 am at 10:54 am #1797068anonymous JewParticipant
Daas Yachid, I think your missing the point. Anyone is entitled to request a seat change. But they are not entitled to refuse to take their seat and delay departure, and, by and large, I’ve only seen that behavior among those refusing to sit next to a woman.November 4, 2019 10:55 am at 10:55 am #1797070GadolhadorahParticipant
Abba 5…..Generally, a business class seat is a good option to avoid “issues”, unless of course, you are flying in one of the older UAL, Emirates (or other airline) 777-200s which still offer 2-3-2 configuration as I discovered this summer on a UAl return flight form Tokyo on UAL.November 4, 2019 10:56 am at 10:56 am #1797072
“צריך אדם להתרחק מהנשים מאד מאד”.—if this was taken literally, you and the rest of the world, past and present, would not function.
And why is it muter to put someone else in the situation that you don’t want to be in.November 13, 2019 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #1800718
I can think of a number of reasons why elal would not make a seat map that shows genders available.
The main reason would be money.
When it comes to cost, every seat on a flight matters. Depending on the circumstances, most of the seats in a plane just cover operating costs forf theairline. Only a few seats actually make the airline a profit. If even a small number of seats are empty on a flight, the airline loses a lot of money for that flight. Therefore, airlines try everything they can to sell all the seats every flight.
Making a seatmap available that shows where babies are, will probably not affect sales. It just makes it convenient for passengers to attempt to make their flight more enjoyable. However, if a passenger sees that there are no other seats but that seat next to the baby, there is a very small chance that he will actually cancel his flight. Sitting next to a baby is only a relatively small inconvenience.
If elal would make a gender seatmap, it would be a little different. There are many Jews that would probably cancel their flight if they see that the only seat is next to a woman. Instead of all seats being booked and some having to be switched around after boarding (a minor inconvenience), the flight will have many empty seats from last minute cancellations.
As elal is a privately owned company that doesn’t care about shmiras shabbos, there is no reason why they would risk losing a lot of money just to cater to shmiras einayim.
Captain™November 14, 2019 12:41 am at 12:41 am #1800722
Having said that, it doesnt mean something cannot be done. Instead of making a seatmap which shows genders, elal can make a program which assigns seats based on gender. They can have different options to choose from at booking, such as “separate seating”, “family seating”, “don’t care”, or other options to sit every one in their preferred seats.
I don’t know if that would eliminate all problems, but it should definitely help with a lot of them.
Captain™November 14, 2019 12:42 am at 12:42 am #1800726
I think the biggest reason for elal to do nothing, is because they have no reason to.
They are known as a jewish airline and many jews will only fly them no matter the cost.
Since as far as i know they already fill all their seats every flight (obviously there are some exceptions) without this seatmap, they have no reason to waste time and money on making one.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.