August 29, 2010 4:12 am at 4:12 am #695639SacrilegeMember
mw13 – yea, I think I am going to ask. Plus, I am going to ask if its an issur d’oreisa. I dont mind being wrong…August 29, 2010 4:17 am at 4:17 am #695640
PY: R. Yehuda Henkin is the zionist rabbi from Israel who also published a ‘psak’ that it is okay for women to dance in front of men, since he says “there not going to look anyways” (!!!). He has some other humorous responsa as well (such as questioning if it is “permissible” to call one of the gedolei hador [he wasn’t fond of] Zatzal (I’m not kidding.)) You decide if this is the type of rabbi you want to be making analysis for you.
If there is a legitimate opinion that shaking is ok, there would be at least a single prominent posek that could be named as disagreeing with Rav Moshe, the Steipler, the Chazon Ish, et al on this YVY d’oraysa issue.
fabie: re: singing, assuming there are no male guests in the house.August 29, 2010 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #695642
oomis, *truthfully*, if three drunken punk gangsters cornered you (with no escape) and c’v threatened to kill you on the spot unless you bowed to a cross they put in front of you while saying ‘for the l-ord’, and you realized they were deadly serious, would you bow or would you let them kill you?
You, and no one, should ever be in this or any remotely comparable situation.
Would you put Hashem first or your grandkids and children first? Would you give up being there for the einekelech?
Truthfully, a simple answer if you would say yes to Hashem and a bullet or not will suffice for this question? What is your choice?August 29, 2010 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #695643MoqMember
Oomis, your personal emotions about the issue are fascinating; but totally irrelevant to the Halachic framework. We, you see, are orthodox Jews, basing our lives on the cold logic of Halacha. I’m sure you’ll find our conversations fascinating. It’s a whole different way of thinking.
We also asks experts in Jewish, known as Rabbis, when we are in doubt as to how to live our lives and don’t rely on our own gut feelings. It’s interesting, really.
We do this because often we find our emotions are inaccurate relative to the view of authentic Torah Judaism. So we try to find out the truth based on authentic Torah sources, and ask for help when we are in doubt.August 29, 2010 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #695646
PY: No, Rav Yaakov does not permit shaking.
I’m still waiting for the name of any prominent posek that disagrees with the CI, Steipler, & Reb Moshe.
Are you going to eat the d’rabbonon’dike kosher chicken-and-cheese sandwich l’sheim kovod habriyos? Shaking hands is YVY, a d’oraysa.
If you want to consult a female pants permitting rabbi, be my guest.August 29, 2010 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #695647sof davar hakol nishmaMember
if you want to see how far this “small” social gesture can go, and how the goyim have absolutely NO hasaga of what it means to be “hands off” and shomer negia-
my friend was a head counselor in a day camp and they called the police i think to break out color war/something. The police officer immediately extended his hand in greeting, and my friend responded as usual “i’m sorry we don’t shake hands for religious reasons, nothing personal” to which the police officer responded – PATTING HER ON THE SHOULDER, “oh i understand honey…” We have to trust our gedolim, i’ve never heard of any heter whatsoever. Would you also say it’s embarrassing to decline an offer of food that was not kosher? This is Kedushas Yisroel! This is one of the greatest things that keeps us so special, and were trying to find loopholes and compromises???August 29, 2010 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #695648sof davar hakol nishmaMember
someone i know once told me a funny story that happened to them. THey were on the bus in E”Y and there was a group of MO kids taking some sort of trip together. (anyone out there MO, don’t take offence there are apparently different levels amongst the MO’s.)One boy asked the girl for her drink and he was about to take a sip, she urgently patted him on the shoulder, “stop, don’t forget to make a bracha” The person observing couldn’t help but ask them “i don’t understand, you make brachos, and your makpid on them but what about a BASIC? what about shomer negia?” to which they responded – “were not makpid on negia” as if it’s a chumra/not so chamur minhag. (there are different levels of minhagim.)You can’t pick and choose in yiddishkeit. We have to abide by EVERYTHING the Shulchan Aruch dictates.
Don’t think i don’t have my fine share of things i have to work on. However, this attitude towards yiddishkeit bothers me terribly.August 30, 2010 4:05 am at 4:05 am #695650
oomis, more important than what the heart tells you, is what the mind tells you. The cross is a vadai Avoda Zora for a Jew. (For a non-Jew, per the sheva mitzvos, it might be a machlokes.) But replace the cross in my question to you with something that you agree is A.Z. (i.e. a buddhist statue). What do you think you would do in such a situation?August 30, 2010 4:29 am at 4:29 am #695651
I honestly do not know. I would hope I could first get the weapon away from the one holding it on me and kill or seriously wound the person threatening my life before he had the chance to kill me for refusing to bow down to his A”Z. But I am not so egotistical as to think that I would do XYZ for sure. I hope I would do the right thing. The question is, what is the right thing in this day and age? Is pretending to bow down to an idol in which you have NO thought that this is god, the same thing as actually serving A”Z chalilah? I don’t know, but this is an intersting shailah to ask my LOR.August 30, 2010 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #695652SJSinNYCMember
Sof, I have heard people say “I’m not makpid on lashon hara.”
And do you want them to give up mitzvot they keep just because they don’t keep something else? If that were the case, I don’t think anyone would be frum.
Do you support a frum man convicted of a crime (that he is guilty of) asking for kosher meals?September 14, 2010 4:02 am at 4:02 am #695654eclipseMember
maybe al tarbeh sicha comes to teach that when conversing with your wife…try not to interrupt so much and actually listen and hear her out?or maybe al tarbeh sicha means don’t talk so much on your blackberry when you’re im ha’isha in a conversation?i know, i know….but “shiv’im ponim la’torah”….September 14, 2010 4:11 am at 4:11 am #695655
eclipse, I like the way you think.September 14, 2010 4:13 am at 4:13 am #695656
Hashem told Avraham Avinu to listen to ALL that his wife says. I think that covers this issue…September 14, 2010 4:26 am at 4:26 am #695657eclipseMember
and that doesn’t mean saying”I WAS listening!I can even tell you what your last sentence was…you want to know why I still didn’t clean out the garage,right?”(by the way,I don’t have a car or a garage–just giving a common scenario)September 14, 2010 4:28 am at 4:28 am #695658Pashuteh YidMember
MosheRose, Hmmm… Rayim Haahuvim???
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