Alte Bochor

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  • #596427

    shlishi
    Member

    At what age does someone attain the status of an “alte bochor”?

    #761786

    Brooklyn Yenta
    Participant

    it’s not an age, it’s an attitude. there are those that are old at 21, and those that are young at 30.

    #761788

    yenta that doesnt make any sense!!

    #761789

    HIE
    Participant

    brooklyn yenta: explain

    HIE

    #761790

    Brooklyn Yenta
    Participant

    so let me rephrase that: there is no magic age that people say boom, you’re officially an alte bochur. but when you start alphabetizing your groceries, you’ll know you’ve earned the title.

    #761791

    amichai
    Participant

    starts at the ages of 28 and 32. depending on who you are dealing with.

    #761792

    smartcookie
    Member

    Yenta- you have a very good point there. But I think a boy/girl starts feeling “old”, when all their friends are already married and they’re still single.

    #761793

    Brooklyn Yenta
    Participant

    smartcookie, you’re right, but by nature some people are happy with whatever their status is, and others are unhappy no matter where in life they are. those are the ones that, at 21, will feel like an alte bochur.

    #761794

    Is an alte bochor the equivalent of an old maid or spinster?

    #761795

    klach
    Member

    depends on what yeshiva. In the early 1900’s in america, an alte bachur was around 40.

    #761796

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “Is an alte bochor the equivalent of an old maid or spinster?”

    Your question is unclear. Do you mean: Is an alte bochor the equivalent of an old maid or is it the equivalent to a spinster? (i.e. one as opposed to the other)

    or

    did you mean: Is an alte bochor the equivalent of an |old maid or spinster| thus lumping them together.

    the nafka mina would be whether or not you consider an old maid equivalent to a spinster.

    #761797

    walton157
    Member

    Dovid HaMelech: The words “spinster” and “old maid” aren’t used in the English language anymore. These individuals are called singles.

    Many single men and women chose to remain single.

    I know single women in their 20s who look, dress and think like they are in their 70s and 80s. I know single women in their 40s and 50s who look, dress and think like they are in their 20s. It’s how each individual, man or woman sees THEMSELVES. That is what they project to the world.

    #761798

    Walton: My Webster’s still has them. It may not be on the 1,000 most frequently used words list, but it certainly is still used, and isn’t even all that uncommon.

    Choosing to remain isn’t an option in our Klal.

    #761799

    walton157
    Member

    Dovid HaMelech: Yes, those two words are in the dictionary, but they are dated and old-fashioned. I think I’m going to ask older single women if they find these words insulting and I will get back to you. I will take a poll, because I can’t decide for these women.

    We DO have a choice to get married or remain single. That is the difference between humans and animals. We can choose, they can’t.

    So, it’s better to settle for someone just to say “I got married”?

    #761800

    We DO have a choice to get married or remain single. That is the difference between humans and animals. We can choose, they can’t.

    Indeed you are correct. Humans have the choice to be good or to be evil.

    So, it’s better to settle for someone just to say “I got married”?

    Most assuredly. Unmarried people are statistically unhappier and die younger.

    #761801

    walton157
    Member

    Dovid HaMelech: I realize that you read many, many articles and gather many stats, but have you ever conducted your own research/poll and ask a single person, man or woman if they are happy or unhappy?

    I had an uncle who never married and he died at age 85 and this was in the 1970s. Not bad for a single man.

    Most assuredly. I really gave a heavy sigh when I saw this comment. Better to be unhappy alone than unhappy with a spouse that isn’t your zivug/beshert. Nothing worse than a house that does not have Shalom Bait. Very sad, indeed.

    #761802

    walton157
    Member

    Dovid HaMelech: I’m not talking about good or evil. I’m talking about choosing to remain single or get married. Ever hear of the expression “splitting hairs”?

    #761803

    Walton: You utilized the term choice of whether to get married or not. Sometimes through no fault of their own, a person wasn’t zocha to get married. But when, as a matter of choice, one chooses not to, it is a matter between good and evil.

    #761804

    hanib
    Participant

    alte bachur is not the same as old maid or spinster. it just means older single of male persuasion, but is still planning to marry, and people still think he’ll get married. people apply old maid or spinster to women who they think will never get married, usually when they’re past their childbearing years. not a very nice term.

    #761805

    You guys are generous… I was going to say alte bochur status is achieved at 25

    #761806

    walton157
    Member

    @binahyeseira: You hit it right on the head, these two words are not very nice. So good to see that someone agrees with me.

    @DovidHAmelech: So what you are saying is that if a person chooses NOT got get married s/she is evil? Please explain.

    Not everyone wants to get married and some who do don’t want children. These are Personal choices, not to be made by the “kehilah”. Everyone has to live their lives according to their standards.

    #761807

    walton157
    Member

    Alte Bouchur: A man, whether married or not, does not act his age or behave in an appropriate way. Sometimes it’s called Social Retardation. No, I’m not making fun of individuals who have Mental Retardation. I’m talking about indididuals who do not know how to act in social settings.

    Anyone agree, disagree?

    #761808

    mw13
    Participant

    Dovid HaMelech:

    “Choosing to remain isn’t an option in our Klal.”

    walton157:

    “We DO have a choice to get married or remain single. That is the difference between humans and animals. We can choose, they can’t.”

    True. But I think what Dovid HaMelech meant was that choosing not to get married is not halachicly feasible.

    “So, it’s better to settle for someone just to say “I got married”?”

    No, they should continue trying to find the right one for them instead of deciding to stay single.

    #761809

    walton157
    Member

    @mw13: How can we make a decision for someone who wants to remain single? When people turn 18, they are emancipated from their parents/guardians. Noone can make this choice for anybody.

    Yes, if someone wants to get married, I will encourage tham to continue their search.

    But if they don’t why waste everyone’s time and energy??

    Men and women (who want to remain single) go on dates out of obligation or they don’t want the community to see them as “freaks”. They are not only “stealing” their date’s time, but their’s and the person who set them up.

    Does this make sense to anyone?

    #761810

    bpt
    Participant

    When he loses the zest for living, he is an “alteh bochur” .

    If he’s 38 had still knows how to have fun, he’s still in the running. Perhaps not for a 21 year old kallah, but still in the game.

    #761811

    hanib
    Participant

    walton – i would add to that: a person who is not READY (even if they eventually want to) to get married, who goes out is also “stealing” their dates’ time and emotions.

    #761812

    mw13
    Participant

    walton157:

    “@mw13: How can we make a decision for someone who wants to remain single? When people turn 18, they are emancipated from their parents/guardians. Noone can make this choice for anybody.”

    First of all, nowhere did I say that “we” should make any decisions for anybody. I said that to make the decision to remain single is halachacly, and therefore morally, wrong.

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