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During the age when most American Yeshiva bochorim go to Beis Medrash Govoha, a minority choose an alternative Beis Medrash. What would prompt or be a reason a bochor would choose a different Beis Medrash at that age? And who are the most popular alternative Yeshivos for them — and how are they different than BMG?
1. Rosh Yeshiva in EY tells talmid not to go to BMG.
2. Might be in Rabbinical Seminary of America (i.e. Yeshiva Chafetz Chaim)
3. Not accepted to BMGReasons not to attend BMG:
#1 No desire to live/study in NJ
#2 Family (father/grandfather/uncles/Brothers/cousins) attended another Yeshiva and that’s where the boy will also attend
#3 Family adheres to a particular Chassidus and boy will attend an affiliated Yeshiva
#4 Parents wish boy to live at home and commute to Yeshiva car, bus, subway, walk)
#5 Boy/Family wants boy to attend Yeshiva and College
#6 Finances It may not be affordable for the boy or family for him to be at BMG
#7 Boy attended a feeder High School for a yeshiva
#8 Boy was not acceptedNone on my sons or grandsons attended BMG. They attended either the Yeshiva in Brooklyn I went to or the one Mrs. CTL’s father attended. My eldest grandson got a real thrill when he walked into shiur the first morning and found the room had a plaque by the entrance stating it had been donated by his great-grandparents.
1. Rosh Yeshiva in EY tells talmid not to go to BMG.
That just shifts the question to the RY.
2. Might be in Rabbinical Seminary of America
Then BMG wasn’t a likely option to begin with.
#3 Family adheres to a particular Chassidus and boy will attend an affiliated Yeshiva
See my response to iacisrmma regarding RSA.
#6 Finances It may not be affordable for the boy or family for him to be at BMG
They accept Pell grants.
#7 Boy attended a feeder High School for a yeshiva
</emThis yeshivas are generally for younger bochurim than those who attend BMG. That being said, there are some yeshivos which do have a program for bochurim returning from Eretz Yisroel.
Not accepted is a reason, perhaps wanting to stay closer to home occurs, but I think the number 1 reason would be wanting a smaller yeshiva, with athe opportunity to gain a kesher with the rosh hayeshiva.
DY: 1. Rosh Yeshiva in EY tells talmid not to go to BMG.
That just shifts the question to the RY.Maybe….but Joseph didn’t ask that. He asked why a certain bochur would choose another option. His RY told him not to.
You also wrote: “but I think the number 1 reason would be wanting a smaller yeshiva, with athe opportunity to gain a kesher with the rosh hayeshiva.”
I have personal experience with a certain RY in Eretz Yisroel (who has a reputation for knowing every bochur in his yeshiva) who prefers his talmidim not go to BMG due to its size. He feels that a smaller yeshiva will help the bochur be able to develop with the Rosh Yeshiva / Maggid Shiur.
Joseph: I don’t know if there is a “typical” path. One of my son’s learnt in the Beis Medrash of the Yeshiva where he went to Mesivta. His “American” RY suggested that he and some other talmidim would do well in EY and made all the arrangements to have them accepted to a certain yeshiva. They all learnt in EY for 2-3 years. My son came back for one zman to BMG, was redd a shiiduch that was B”H successful and has returned to his yeshiva in EY.
Another of my son’s also learnt out-of-NY for High School and went to Beis Medrash of the Yeshiva where he went to Mesivta. He then returned to NY and learnt in a Yeshiva in Queens (not Chofetz Chaim) for 3 years and then was hired by an out-of-town yeshiva as a dorm monitor/tutor.
1. What are the advantages of going to BMG, for the majority that chooses to do so, despite the apparent greater difficulty of establishing a kesher – compared to a smaller BM.
They can slip through the cracks, slack off and none would be the wiser, except for perhaps their chavrusah and some members of the chaburah they join, while maintaining the “image” needed for shidduchim.
2. What reasons would BMG decline to accept a talmid.
They see through the ruse.
I think the real question here should be “Why is BMG the default option?”
I once had someone tell me he was going to BMG because “it’s the thing to do”. I asked him, “Is it the best place for you?” He said “I don’t know.”
Having a big place which churns out products like a factory, with no thought to individuality within its ranks, is one of the biggest issues we have in the frum world today. We have a rule of chanoch l’naar al pi darko. Every person needs individual attention. We also have asei l’cha Rav – have a Rebbe! Do you think you get a real kesher with a Rebbe in BMG? I have 3 brothers who went through BMG, and none of them has a lasting kesher with their Rabbeim/Rosh Chaburah from there. One is still close with R’ Altusky (from Darchei) and one is still close with R’ Bender. The 3rd, as far as I know, isn’t as close with either one of them, but does have a kesher with his Rav. I see the same thing with many of my cousins who went through BMG – the Rebbe they’re close with, who they consider their main Rebbe, isn’t from BMG.What would prompt or be a reason a bochor would choose a different Beis Medrash at that age?
Because BMG would have been completely wrong for me and had I gone there, I would likely have ended up completely off the derech. (Yes, I know that some of you think that I am that way now anyway, but that’s your opinion, not mine).
And who are the most popular alternative Yeshivos for them
The one I went to was a small beis midrash and clearly not one of “the most popular alternatives.” But it was right for me in ways that BMG never could have been.
The Wolf
For many bnai torah, the sheer size and complexity of the BMG network precludes the opportunity to enter into a personal relationship with a Rav/mentor and is simply overwhelming. It works for some but not others. Also, the BMG/Lakewood dependency culture is problematic for many families who want their children to have the opportunity to study in kollel for a few years but ultimately move on to a normal family life with one or both parents working for a parnassah while continuing torah study at some level.
Half the people i speak to say, “your so lucky you have a place besides BMG”. And the other half say, “why didn’t you go to BMG?”
Many people go there just cuz everyone goes there. Either because why not, cuz theyll have guys/chaburah there, or they dont want to chvsh mess up their chances of getting married so they leave Hshem out of the picture and go to BMG
The goyim’s Ivy League has 7 colleges. Jews should have 8 elite yeshivas.
Huju.
The Ivy League has 8 colleges/universities.
Please don’t refer to them as the goyim’s.
Many Jews attend/attended these fine schools.
I am a proud that University of Pennsylvania is my Alma Mater
Other members: Harvard, Brown, Dartmouth, Yale (in my hometown), Columbia, Cornell, Princeton.The formerly all female colleges of similar caliber were known as the Seven Sisters (Radcliffe was affiliated with Harvard and Barnard with Columbia).
In ancient times when I attended University of Pennsylvania, undergraduate men were in ‘the College’ females were in ‘The College for Women’ Wharton School of Finance was co-ed, the Schools of Nursing and Allied Medical Professions were all female. The Graduate schools were all co-ed.CTLAWYER whats wrong with New Jersey? I live here and am very content with my life here.
You guys are forgetting the main reason why bochurim don’t wanna go to BMG- the freezer! Many guys love learning in Eretz Yisrael and only come back to America to date
What’s wrong with New Jersey?
Let’s start with the Governor…who wanted the beach to himself and brought us Bridgegate.
Then the lovely small while driving through ElizabethMy comment about not wanting to live in NJ, should not be taken to mean that I feel there is something wrong with NJ, but that not everyone wants to live in NJ.
I’m 50 miles from Manhattan, and my sons went to Yeshiva in Brooklyn, that was far enough to travel when we wanted to see them. Mrs. CTL and I were not interested in schlepping to southern NJ to visit, or drive them back after they came home for a Shabbos, doctor’s appointment, etc.
BTW>>>they went to the same Yeshiva I, my brothers, my father and uncles all attended. We were happy with the result, why would we send them elsewhere? (Especially since our family tradition is to learn a couple of years after high school, then university and professional school).
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