November 14, 2010 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #710319real-briskerMember
pba – I think it goes my way as it is the rabbis shul not yours. Please dont tell me you tell your rov how to lead his shul. cantoresq – Pack your bags, and find a new one.November 14, 2010 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #710320
your obviously one of those liberals who needs a reality check!
You know, I may well be the stupidest person on the face of the earth. I just might be dumber than a slime puddle on a rock. But how you came to any conclusion regarding my political affiliation from this is totally beyond me. Care you explain it to this idiot?
The WolfNovember 14, 2010 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #710321
it says nowhere in MY Torah that you have to put up with some over-the-hill rabbi yappin away to no one!!
Ah, so your problem is that you lack basic reading comprehension skills. If you go back and check again, you’ll see that I stated that the vast majority of the congregation was listening to him speak.
The vast majority of the congregation (who, by the way, are very capable of learning on their own as well) are not “no one.”
I may be stupid, dumb and ignorant, but at least I can read.
The WolfNovember 14, 2010 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #710322
you’re not necessarily correct. (or so right (joke))
if a rav left and the board with no membership input hires a new rav, the members have no obligation to respect that rav or acknowledge him as their rav. they also don’t need to find a new shul.
i don’t know if this is the case here, but it’s not always so cut and dry.November 14, 2010 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #710323
this question like so many leaves many things unanswered.
how many guys are learning? what is the percent? is it a one time thing or do they do it every week? is it due to not caring what the rav has to say or are they pressed to finish mavra sedra?
are they giving a speech later or the next day that they have to prepare for, like daf yomi?November 14, 2010 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm #710324
YES, you were wrong!
now let me read more than the heading.November 14, 2010 11:32 pm at 11:32 pm #710325
Why doesn’t Rush Limbaugh chime in, too?November 14, 2010 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #710326deiyezoogerMember
I love my rav, he is great and most people love listening to him, I’m a bad listener and with 100 people listening I dont think he minds me sitting in the back looking in a sefer. obviously if there is a small crowd then you are not going tolisten and not wave a sefer in his face.November 15, 2010 12:16 am at 12:16 am #710327
YES, you were wrong!
Glad we got that settled. 🙂
The WolfNovember 15, 2010 1:17 am at 1:17 am #710328deiyezoogerMember
obviously if there is a small crowd then you are not going tolisten and not wave a sefer in his face.
Sorry it should read “you are going to listen”November 15, 2010 1:32 am at 1:32 am #710329cantoresqMember
MyFried, it’s very slim pickins in my neck of the woods.November 15, 2010 2:43 am at 2:43 am #710330
cantoresq, what about those who voted against you? Are they stlll in the shul? Do they still listen while you daven?November 15, 2010 2:47 am at 2:47 am #710331
One more thing to remember. Whatever you do you role model for your children. So if you show a lack of kovod to your Rav you are teaching that to all the children in the room as well.November 15, 2010 3:20 am at 3:20 am #710332myfriendMember
There aries goes again being all judgmental on others. (Now shes judging those who read in shul…)November 15, 2010 3:35 am at 3:35 am #710333
myfriend, are you anyone else’s friend as well?November 15, 2010 4:08 am at 4:08 am #710334myfriendMember
Yours too.November 15, 2010 1:23 pm at 1:23 pm #710336Mother in IsraelMember
Shawn, I think it’s reasonable to assume that someone has read a topic before posting his opinion on it, don’t you?
Wolf, you’re not wrong at all. It’s simply chutzpah to take out a sefer and learn while the Rav is speaking. I don’t see how anyone can think it’s not.November 15, 2010 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #710337
Shawn Hannety – I respectfully disagree with you. If you cannot sit in a room where a rov is giving a shiur, without yawning, sleeping, or reading another sefer – leave the room. To do any of those things in his presence is extraordinarily chutzpahdig. Don’t blame a rov for boring you. Perhaps you should simply not stay for his lecture. I have listened to rabbonim speak who were not only boring, but not my cup of tea for other reasons. I would NEVER talk or read a sefer while they were speaking. My parents brought me up to have better manners than that.
As to being judgmental – we are ALL judgmental every single day. We have to be. Discerning, might be a better word, as judgmental seems to have a negative connotation. The main idea is not to be so sure we are the ONLY ones who have a clue, that we discount anyone else’s view. The only view that I as a frum Yid would discount, is one which tells me it’s ok to be mechallel Shabbos, eat treif, not go to the mikveh, not have my sons gemalehd, and so on. Otherwise, all observance that conforms to basic Judaism and its guidelines, is good. I may choose to observe something more strictly than you or less strictly, but if I am meeting the minimum standards, then you should refrain from comment, even if you want to be more machmir on yourself. Only Hashem gets to judge us after 120 years.November 15, 2010 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #710338
Oh man… where to start with this?
why did u assume that i had even read your topic.
Since you responded to me, and chose to personally issue an insult (I don’t think you meant it as a compliment when you said “your obviously one of those liberals who needs a reality check!”) it was naturally safe to assume that you actually read my post. Or are you in the habit of issuing insults to people without actually reading what they wrote?
you know “wolf”, you really should learn the fine character trait of “dan lechaf zechus”.
That’s a laugh… you lecturing me on “dan l’kaf z’chus.” You decided I was “obviously one of those liberals” when there was NOTHING in this post (which you’re now claiming to have not even read!!) that would indicate my political leanings one way or the other.
all you have succeeded in doing is making me resent you!!
No danger there. Based on your earlier comments, it looks like you already did resent me.
The WolfNovember 15, 2010 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #710339blinkyParticipant
Firstly, I agree that it definitely is disrespesctful as most of us here…so maybe we should try to find a solution how to fix it, and not be busy with pointless arguments.
And Wolf- don’t be so self critical of yourself you are not as stupid as you make yourself to be- i mean someone that is obviously an exceptional photographer can’t be THAT dumb…:)November 15, 2010 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #710340
One last point for “Shawn:”
If you’re going to use the name of a celebrity, at least spell it correctly. It’s SEAN HANNITY, not SHAWN HANNETY.
The WolfNovember 15, 2010 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #710341
Wolf, am I the only one here who thinks that when you write disparagingly about yourself, that you are simply messing with us with a touch of wry wit?November 15, 2010 7:04 pm at 7:04 pm #710342twistedParticipant
OP, you are no lower than them. YOU have the sensitivity and the middos they lack. Derech erext kadma ltorah is basically a dead idea in some places, and for Azus Ponim like this WE TOSS KIDS OUT OF SCHOOL because rotten middos are contagious!November 15, 2010 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #710343
Wolf, am I the only one here who thinks that when you write disparagingly about yourself, that you are simply messing with us with a touch of wry wit?
I can’t answer about what other people think.
All I can tell you is that when I’m attempting to be humorous, I try to make it as plain and clear as possible.
The WolfNovember 15, 2010 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #710344apushatayidParticipant
If you read a sefer while the Rav is speaking you are saying, I could care less what you have to say and I would rather be anywhere else, but here listening to you. If you open a sefer during davening you are saying the same thing to hashem as well.November 15, 2010 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #710345SacrilegeMember
Does anyone else here think that “Shawn Hannety” & “Michael Savage” is “Moshe Rose”?
(Based on the name calling, strange stance on issues & superb spelling and grammar)November 15, 2010 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #710346sam responsibleMember
WIY, It also bothers me when my “super masmidim” family members do it at family sheva brachos and at the shabbos table.
For some people, the family should appreciate just on what they came, and in General how can you know how hard for him it was Today to celebrate in any kind of… He came to take part of ‘families S’imcha etc.!?November 15, 2010 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #710347yechezkel89Member
hannety, have you ever heard of derech eretz kadmo latorah? if you have may your opinions would be differentNovember 16, 2010 1:29 am at 1:29 am #710348lechatchilahMember
Wow! I would never have thought that this could actually be a discussion. There is no way to justify learning a sefer during the Rav’s speach (ESPECIALLY IF HE IS WITHIN EYESIGHT)! If a person feels he is not going to gain anything, Torah-wise, by listening he should listen anyways and thus gain tremendously in the realm of middos.November 16, 2010 2:18 am at 2:18 am #710349WIYMember
“Wow! I would never have thought that this could actually be a discussion. There is no way to justify learning a sefer during the Rav’s speach (ESPECIALLY IF HE IS WITHIN EYESIGHT)! If a person feels he is not going to gain anything, Torah-wise, by listening he should listen anyways and thus gain tremendously in the realm of middos.”
Very well said!November 16, 2010 3:40 am at 3:40 am #710350
Sacrilege, it did cross my mind. I think all three are one. (Uh oh. What does that sound like?)November 16, 2010 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #710351
I must say that the silence from the lack of response from “Shawn” to my last remarks to him is most deafening.
The WolfNovember 16, 2010 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #710352SacrilegeMember
“Uh oh. What does that sound like?”
Someone who needs to get a life.November 17, 2010 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #710353
this question like so many leaves many things unanswered.
I don’t see how any of your questions matter one way or the other.
how many guys are learning? what is the percent?
Why is it right if it’s below X number of people but wrong if it’s above X number of people? Are you being less disrespectful if you do it solo?
is it a one time thing or do they do it every week?
Again, if it’s wrong once, it’s wrong every time in the same circumstance.
is it due to not caring what the rav has to say or are they pressed to finish mavra sedra?
Why does that matter? They shouldn’t be maavir sedrah while the rav was speaking? Would you like it if I was being maavir sedra while you were speaking to me?
are they giving a speech later or the next day that they have to prepare for, like daf yomi?
Why does that matter? If it was an hour to midnight on April 15, would you excuse them doing their taxes while the rav was speaking? If you have to prepare a speech then either daven in a shul where the rav doesn’t speak or leave before he does.
The WolfNovember 17, 2010 11:45 pm at 11:45 pm #710354
The people who don’t think this is rude, probably also text like mad on their cell phones while someone is in the middle of talking to them at that moment.November 18, 2010 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #710356
Didn’t we try to cover these type of things before with the “lack of RESPECT” thread and the “what happened to Derech Eretz” thread?
Do you know the worst thing about all those people who don’t know this is rude and “W”rong? Do you remember as kids when we did something wrong the question always rang out “where were you brought up, in a barn?” (well some of you will remember) Your rudeness and attitude, also known as lack of respect for others, will always, let me emphasize ALWAYS reflect back to your parents and teachers.
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