Amen, Awomen

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  • This topic has 44 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by jackk.
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  • #1935538

    Hashem Yeracheim. How do any of you support these lunatics?? If you want to support democrats on economic issues, kol hakovod, but it seems your support extends to social issues as well, HOW?? And dont say “Joe Biden has nothing to do with this”-for in a town hall in october, he responded to a mother of a “transgender”-“If your 8 year old child says they want to be transgender to make life easier … they have a right to transition and there is no reason for you to deny it,”.

    #1935575
    jackk
    Participant

    TVOP,

    Only democrats have kids that are LGBT ? or have abortions ? What do you want the government to do?

    #1935581
    Levi Yitzchok
    Participant

    Calm down. Cleaver said awomen was just a pun.

    #1935583
    Old Crown Heights
    Participant

    They’ve been deranged by non-stop propaganda lies against the (usually photoshop filtered) “Orange Man” to the point they say prefer what has happened to major U.S. cities such as Portland, Seattle, Los Angeles, New York … than have Donald Trump stay in office.

    #1935585
    se2015
    Participant

    And then a republican congressman tried to claim that “amen” is latin. Hashem yeracheim. It’s OUR word. And to think so many yidden voted for these etymologically challenged kratsmach tree worshipers.

    #1935586
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “but it seems your support extends to social issues as well, HOW??”

    I cant speak for all but supporting a candidate doesn’t mean you agree or support all their positions.

    Once upon a time Trump supporters said the same “I dont agree wit him on xyz but he’s better than Hillary, or but Supreme court or but ISrael”
    granted some shift has taken place over the past months and most of them are all in on the crazy train supporting all sorts of nutty ideas, just because “their guy” said it. but it wasn’t always this way and it shouldn’t be this way

    The fact that you even have this question is telling

    #1935588
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    If he had just said “Uuumiiine v’ Uuumiiine” no one would have been offended.

    #1935590
    charliehall
    Participant

    Trying to figure out why Jews should have any opinion regarding the text of a prayer given by a Christian minister.

    #1935622

    Jack, yes there are plenty of Republicans that are lgb-and I never had a problem with that (not that I approve of lg, but I feel the government has no business in other people’s personal lives)-its the “t” that I have a problem with, it’s the “t” that is sheer lunacy, and no I can’t imagine too many Republicans that are trans.
    Charlie-the “prayer given by a christian minister” isn’t the problem here-its the fact that a standard word was “cancelled” for not being “inclusive”….this is just ridiculous….

    #1935635
    Amil Zola
    Participant

    This is all too funny. A bunch of Jews arguing about xtian prayers. I’m sure there are more important things. But FWIW I’ll go with the OEDs authority on the etymology of the word ‘amen’.

    #1935636
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    “Trying to figure out why Jews should have any opinion regarding the text of a prayer given by a Christian minister….”
    Charlie: Your missing the point. If he had finished the prayer with a a simple “Uuumein”, he would have locked in support from all the Litvishe members of the House. Instead, he offended everyone except for the more progressive Dems.

    #1935668
    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Oh no, what’s going to happen to the Constitutional A-MEN-dments?

    #1935725
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “its the fact that a standard word was “cancelled” for not being “inclusive”…”

    Oh o it was cancelled? too bad No shul I’ve been in over the past days got that memo.

    “this is just ridiculous….”

    It is, so many right wingers getting all bent out of shape over a (admittedly dumb) pun.

    #1935737
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    At Ghost ship Fire in Oakland CA. a number of the dead people assumed a new identity without any biological changes or legal name change, the Medical Examiner released the names using the legal names not the assumed names OMG the flak they go for using the real names was not to be believed.

    #1935742
    jackk
    Participant

    TVOP,

    I was referring to the story that you brought of Biden talking to a parent of a lgbt kid.
    As I have repeated in the CR many times, the social issue of lgbt is not exclusive to democratic parents. You can’t imagine republican parents having kids that are t? Why not ? I am sure that it is as common as democratic parents.
    Your example is not a reason to not vote for democrats or biden.
    lgbt people are alive in the US and need to be given the same rights that every other US Citizen has, no matter how detestable and disgusting they are to every frum yid.

    #1935757
    emes nisht sheker
    Participant

    Trump tweeted an insult against Chuck Todd this morning and rather than condemning his continued vile language the big hullaboo here is a silly pun from a Democrat that meant no harm to anyone.

    #1935770
    akuperma
    Participant

    No one ever can the Democrats (or modern Americans, in general) credit for knowing foreign languages. Only someone hopelessly monolingual could get so confused by a false cognate (thinking that “amen” really is “a man”). But then again, most Americans (red and blue) are hopelessly monolingual. In our community almost everyone is bilingual or trilingual or even quadralingual (English, Hebrew, Yiddish and Aramaic), but that is highly unusual in the United States.

    Since they believe that “Manhattan” means “Man hat on”, will they change the name of the boro (and island) to “Femhatton”???

    #1935778
    silentmoishe
    Participant

    If you wtch the video you’ll see that it wasn’t meant as a pun. In addition to that piece of amazing ignorance for a Pastor, he included the name of a Hindu god as being monotheistic when in fact it is a true part of a polytheistic avoda zora. But all this is no problem because to these liberal dumocrats facts are irrelevant.

    #1935782
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    I’m as “progressive” as anyone else in the CR but this meshugaas about referencing a specific person in a conversation among many people as “they” rather than “him/her” is a bit crazy and frequently results in confusion, especially now on Zoom conference calls where you are referencing the negotiating position of a specific party versus another group. Most major law firms and investment banks have adopted rules similar to those in the House but with all respect, they are VERY confusing even though the objective of inclusion is laudatory.

    #1935832
    emes nisht sheker
    Participant

    I would be much more concerned by the continued vile language of Donald Trump and his supporters then amen or awomen. But go on cry a river. This continued insistence this is a big deal reflects poorly on the people continuing to push it.

    #1935833
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    “and no I can’t imagine too many Republicans that are trans.“

    Wasn’t there an athlete that is/was Republican who is trans (I can’t remember the name)

    #1935843
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @emesnitshtsheker, your entitled to your opinion, opinions are like shoes everyone has as least two and they stink for the most part.

    #1935867

    ubiquitin-sorry, but you dont get to just “admit it was a dumb pun”, after making a stupid political statement that didnt age well. He meant it when he said it, and he said it with a purpose.
    Jackk-“You can’t imagine republican parents having kids that are t? Why not ? I am sure that it is as common as democratic parents.” im sure its not. Because while you may have republicans with crazy depressed kids, Republicans wouldnt encourage and normalize such behavior. ”t people are alive in the US and need to be given the same rights that every other US Citizen has, no matter how detestable and disgusting they are to every frum yid.”-what “rights” are they missing?

    #1935890
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    People have been making this dumb pun for decades, but it is impossible for him not to have meant it seriously.

    #1935918
    jackk
    Participant

    TVOP,
    “Republicans wouldnt encourage and normalize such behavior. ”
    Sorry, kids do not become lgbt because they are encouraged .It is was too complex an issue.

    #1935923
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    TVP
    “. He meant it when he said it, and he said it with a purpose.”

    meant what exactly? what it it

    Yes of course he said it with a purpose, a purpose of inclusivity. Not sure whats wrong with that.

    Lehavdil elef alfei rivvovos havdolos when We chazal say “halichos olam lo al tikri halichos eleh halachos” Are they “canceling” the word halichos. Do they not know what halichos means Ch”v they are teaching a lesson.

    That is all he meant a message on inclusivity, I thought it was silly. You do to thats fine.

    What do you think he meant?

    #1935939
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    TVP

    “He meant it when he said it,”

    meant what? what do you think he meant?

    ” and he said it with a purpose.”

    of course he did, Noone is saying it was accidental the purpose was inclusivity . He made a pun to preach a message of inclusivity. He didn’t cancel anything he didn’t say or imply that no one should say “amen” or that saying “amen” was wrong or not inclusive .

    He has a masters in divinity, Do you really think he didn’t know what amen means ?

    #1935960
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    He has a masters in divinity, Do you really think he didn’t know what amen means ?, that degree is not worth the paper its printed on

    #1936001
    akuperma
    Participant

    common saychel: Depending on seminary, Hebrew is not a required subject. Almost all Americans are very much monolingual and tend to look down on learning foreign languages. And frequently, make fools of themselves (e.g when General Motors markets a car in Latin America with the name “Nova”).

    #1936373
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    It’s a myth. General Motors did not mistakenly sell the Nova without checking the translation.

    #1936495

    Jackk, I wish you wouldnt lump lgb, together with t. No semi-normal person in history, until recently ever grew up believing they were the opposite gender. Trans people should be regarded by all as what they are -mentally ill, depressed people. Thats not to say at all we should exclude them from society, no thats definitely not what im saying. I wouldnt even mind calling one by their prefered gender if i ever met with one. But when we are dealing with a child, who is not mentally ill, rather simply confused, we shouldnt be teaching them that you can in fact choose your gender. And that is what I find problematic, and quite disturbing with your democrat heroes, who do indeed promote this lunacy.

    #1936500
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    TVOP: I think in the context of this thread, Jackk is not suggesting that trans-gender individuals be counted for a minyan but simply assuring that they are not subject to overt discrimination ion civil law matters.

    #1936525
    rightwriter
    Participant

    Should someone explain to them what Amen means and that it has nothing to do with men or women? Such entertainment.

    #1936542
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    rightwriter

    don’t worry he knows

    #1936551

    Gh, jackk-so exactly what rights are we supposed to be giving them that they don’t have? Allowing biological men into woman’s bathrooms? Into woman sports?

    #1936569
    jackk
    Participant

    TVOP,

    The rights that every citizen has.
    Let us start by making sure that they are not to be discriminated against. Some examples are in the workplace or in the military.
    I lump t together because the lgbt movement does and it makes it easier.
    I am not surprised based on your belief that somehow parents who vote for the democrat’s are more likely to have lgbt kids than parents who vote for the republicans, that you also believe that no semi-normal person in history, until recently ever grew up believing they were the opposite gender.
    I beg to differ. They were all in the closet. Just ask Iran. Iran has declared that they have absolutely zero lgbt people among 81,000,000. (How fortunate the land of Iran is /sarcasm.)
    The bathroom issue is a topic for lawmakers and lawyers to work out how to accommodate all people – including the religious. The sports issue is a topic for those who administer sports. They disallow taking performance enhancing (PE) drugs also because of the advantage it gives.

    I will repeat that I am disgusted like every frum Jews is with toevos and I agree that nobody should be taught that they can choose their gender.
    I also believe that:
    1) nobody should be taught that belief in Hashem is optional and
    2) the toeva of evolution should not be taught.

    #1936581
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @jackk, I work in corporate america and I worked with every stripe of gender identity and I can tell you that the REAL females felt very uncomfortable when a man who one day decided that he is a female decides to use the ladies room.
    PS use of plural pronouns in insane its ONE person

    #1936653
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    We need gender-neutral singular pronouns for the unspecified individual, such as “somebody” or “anybody”.

    #1936669
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @rebyid23: exactly, its not somebodies or anybodies when referring to a individual

    #1936675

    Jackk, don’t know what “easier” has to do anything. Lg, are toevos, but should have nothing to do with government, and lg people should therefor not be denied any rights, b, obviously shouldn’t be denied any rights, but t is a totally and completely different discussion. It’s a lunacy, and lunacy shouldn’t be forced upon other people. And I have quite a hard time believing this existed 500yrs ago. Yes, maybe 20yrs ago, and in many countries now days, there may be people “in the closet”, but that is only because the lunacy has been introduced to the world, and is now widespread. I assume you states your last two “beliefs” to compare them to “t”-that just like your latter 2 have no standing here in america, so shouldn’t your “personal opinion as a jew”, on “t”-have any standing.
    And I would respond that there is no comparison. Because for someone who doesn’t have the torah, and doesn’t think about life too much, the latter 2 are not only acceptable, but actually quite understandable. Therefor they have a place here in golus. But believing one can change their gender is a completely different story.
    And if the rights they are “denied” is that they aren’t regarded in society as the opposite gender, then so be it.

    #1936935
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Calm down. Cleaver said awomen was just a pun.

    To save face

    #1937784
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Quebec has a 8:00 PM curfew with one exception of being out with a dog, my friend was out with his friend after 8 and and was stopped by the police, he said I feel like a dog therefore I am a dog, it works for the T people it can work for me too.

    #1938087
    jackk
    Participant

    common seychel,

    I discussed the particulars of bathroom usage and I said that accommodations should be made to make everyone comfortable.
    Why does it have to be an issue?

    TVAP.

    Easier in discussing discrimination against a group. Just like we refer to discrimination of all minorities as one.

    I stated my opinions so that you shouldn’t think that I believe it is normal. I want to be pragmatic about it.
    I understand that we agree to disagree about the source of this lunacy and whether it existed 500 years ago. In my opinion , even if it wasn’t around 500 years ago, maybe for some unknown reason in the days of ikvise demshicha Hashem sent these kinds of people to the world.

    I agree it shouldn’t be forced on anybody.

    The most famous trans person that I know is former Bruce Jenner who won an Olympic gold in the Decathlon. He was a public figure for a very long time before changing and appears quite normal.

    The truth is 100% of the trans people you meet after they have changed , you will never ever know that they are trans.

    #1938102
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @jackk “The truth is 100% of the trans people you meet after they have changed , you will never ever know that they are trans.”
    Speak for yourself, I can spot the Trans people a mile away

    #1938315
    jackk
    Participant

    common seychel.
    I am speaking for the Torah.
    If you would have been around by matan torah, there would be no need for the Lav of Lo Yilbash because to you it would never lead to toevah.

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