April 10, 2022 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #2077130
When I was in Yeshiva I thought I learned one shouldn’t say amen to a woman’s bracha if she isn’t his close relative because of tznius but since then I can’t find it
Can someone help me either way (either halachos for or against)
TIAApril 10, 2022 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm #2077262
I recall that while a woman can be motzi one or more other women of their obligation to make a certain baracha while engaged in a common endeavor, along with children, it is not considered tziniusdik in some circles for a woman to be motzi a group of men. However, not clear how the inyan of tzinius would apply for a man to acknowledge a woman’s baracha with an amenApril 10, 2022 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #2077288
The Digul Mervava asked how a man could be motzei kiddush a woman when she is responsible biblically whereas he is rabbinically after davening, They answer because of arevus. So the woman might have a different chiyuv and therefore not motzei a man. Whereas validation of her bracha by answering Amen should not be a problem. Maybe, kol beisha erva.April 11, 2022 12:35 am at 12:35 am #2077299
RebE, Brocha is not kol isha. As far as I know, discussions of women reading Torah or leading men in brochos revolve around other issues, not mentioning kol isha.April 11, 2022 8:51 am at 8:51 am #2077361
I clearly lack the knowledge of Reb E and others but perhaps the argument is simply that a man responding “umein” to a woman’s baracha might somehow call attention to that woman or imply the man is focusing his attention on her and thus somehow there is a “tzinius” concern. Again, I have no source for this rather simple-minded argument.April 11, 2022 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #2077413
The men don’t include women for tzenius reasons for mezuman but three woman can make mezuman on their own. There is an argument if they bentch gomal, was there a chiyuv placed on them in the first place? The Chasam Sofer explains that they used to light Chanukah candles outside and it was improper for women mixing outside with the men, so therefore girls do not light Chanukah candles now even inside.April 12, 2022 11:40 am at 11:40 am #2077828BenephraimParticipant
Women are chayav to make brachos because you can not have benefit from this world.They can not make safek brachos because they are chayav in Lo Sisa. Arevus for women is controversial among the acharonim.
Whether women can be motzi a man on magid and if she may lead a seder is discussed by the acharonim as well.
Chag SameachApril 12, 2022 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm #2077846
Aren’t you going to share what the Poskim pasken on the matter?April 12, 2022 2:41 pm at 2:41 pm #2077877
Thanks but that wasn’t the questionApril 14, 2022 11:04 am at 11:04 am #2078317BenephraimParticipant
Would it make a difference to you if you answered אמן or not.
Listen to the ברכה yes, but answer no?
Anyway you seem to be שומע כעונה.April 14, 2022 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #2078325
I have heard from an adom gadol that no man has ever lost his chelek of olam haboh for answering amen to a woman’s baracha. However, this is limited to a simple sephardishe nusach amen. The issue becomes considerably more complex if he responds to such a varbeshe baracha with one of those passionate, elongated litvishe style UUUUUMEEIINE! which certainly would draw inappropriate attention to both himself and the woman making the baracha.April 14, 2022 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #2078359
And I’ve been saying “amen” to my wife’s brachos for years.
Another sign that I am just an evil apikorus.
The WolfApril 14, 2022 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #2078422
Except for a wife (אשתו כגופו)May 2, 2022 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #2081992MenachemFivenbirmbaumParticipant
I’ll stop saying Amen to my wife’s brachos from now on. Thank you!May 3, 2022 8:34 am at 8:34 am #2082183
Whether a woman can make a bracha on time dependent mitzva is a machlokes between the Rabbenu Tam whose view is that an unnecessary bracha is only assur rabbinically therefore as there is no chiyuv but there can be a mitzva, so they can, and the Rambam, Mechaber whose view is that it is assur because of lo siso, see Rosh Hashana (1,33). So for the ashkenazim, an Amen should be recited on their bracha.May 3, 2022 10:58 pm at 10:58 pm #2082643
RebE, Ashkenazi husband or ashkenazi wife?May 3, 2022 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #2082666
AAQ: The wife automatically becomes and adopts whatever her husband is. So if the husband is Ashkenaz, whoever he marries, regardless of what she was previously, the wife assumes all Ashkenazic minhagim and halachos.May 4, 2022 9:29 am at 9:29 am #2082785
“The wife automatically becomes and adopts whatever her husband is…”
Of course, UJM is correct IF the wife chooses to do so. There are many “mixed” marriages where the couple retain elements of BOTH haskafahs, generally outside of the nusach of their teffilos. I suspect others have been to shabbos and yom tov dinners, as I have, where the cuisine could be best described as “yiddeshe fusion” . Its NOT a binary choice.May 4, 2022 11:10 am at 11:10 am #2082809
The Chacham Tzvi left in his tzavaoh for his descendant women not to make a bracha on a time dependent mitzva.May 4, 2022 11:12 am at 11:12 am #2082853
Except for a wife (אשתו כגופו)
If that’s the case, then I’m still an apikorus, since one doesn’t answer “amen” to one’s own b’rachos.
In any event, I’ve also said “amen” to the b’rachos of my daughter, sister, mother and nieces as well. So, I’m still a complete rasha.
The WolfMay 4, 2022 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #2082864
Wolf: Your apikorus shtick is old and stale. Try something new for the next five years.May 4, 2022 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #2082865
Hadora: It is a halacha that the wife is to adopt her husband’s minhagim and halachic customs.May 4, 2022 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #2082866
“In any event, I’ve also said “amen” to the b’rachos of my daughter, sister, mother and nieces as well. So, I’m still a complete rasha.“
אין אדם משים עצמו רשע
So I don’t believe you
😜May 4, 2022 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm #2082879
Wolf, אין אדם משים עצמו רשע, a person should not consider oneself a rasha.May 4, 2022 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #2082926
Wolf: Your apikorus shtick is old and stale. Try something new for the next five years.
I’m sorry if you find my self-opinion “old and stale.” I’ll try to find new ways to think negatively about myself.
The WolfMay 4, 2022 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #2082925
Wolf, אין אדם משים עצמו רשע, a person should not consider oneself a rasha.
You do realize that that is strictly an evidentiary rule that has applicability only in the context of testimony, right?
The WolfMay 4, 2022 4:02 pm at 4:02 pm #2082977
No, because if someone considers themselves a rasha might refrain from doing teshuva. There is a mashel of the Dubner Magid, where one saw a poor man and wanted to make some fun of him. He told him come to my hotel and eat and drink and enjoy yourself to your hearts content. Being there a week or so, the owner comes and asks him to pay up. He has to give up the backpack he has and goes out saddened. The man starts laughing at him and tells him, now you might as well go back and eat and drink as you have nothing to lose anymore. The yetzer hara has us enjoy ourselves in this world and when we are full sins, he says, now there is no help anymore for you, teshuva does not work, and you might as well do whatever you want.May 4, 2022 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #2083050
The above Dubner Maggid is on the gemora in Shabbos about the contradiction in Koheles on שמח בחור בילדותך, young man enjoy yourself in your youth followed by ודע כי אל כל אלה יביאך ה’ במשפט, know that for all you will be taken to judgement. So the gemora says that the first part is the yetzer hara and the second part the yetzer tov. So he says that maybe according to the above mashel both are said by the yetzer hara, once he throws us into the pit making us a rasha through enjoying ourselves, he says now you cannot get out and away from the judgement which is waiting for you.May 5, 2022 12:22 am at 12:22 am #2083154
ujm, women might follow their mother’s minhagim re: candles, etc.May 5, 2022 12:22 am at 12:22 am #2083155
RebE > Chacham Tzvi left in his tzavaoh for his descendant women not to make a bracha on a time dependent mitzva.
This tzavaoh seem to mean that the normative behavior is not like that.May 5, 2022 12:23 am at 12:23 am #2083157
that wife follows husband Igros Moshe 1:158
R Auerbach, quoted in Yom Tov Sheini K’hilchaso, pg. 188 – husband does NOT HAVE TO insist on his minhag – even possibly nusach or anything she wants. Maybe this could be part of a prenup?
someone suggests that this is coming from the klal of moving to a different place – husband’s house (YD 214:2). This matches Yevamos saying that a man should not live with in-laws (may not be operative now when most people don’t live with in-laws and wives are not always that younger than husbands).
Igros Moshe Even Ha’ezer 2:22 – a spouse can not force humros on others. R Ovadia Yosef quoted for the same (not using eruv). Some testify that R Moshe did not interfer with his wife drinking halav stam.
Rav Eliyashev – that some minhagim are nedorim and shoulbe kept (kitniyot)
For exceptions for candles, mikva, wig:
Igros Moshe EH 2:12
R Auerbach, Halichos Shlomo, chapter 9 of hilchos Succah, footnote 37
Yaaakov Emden Teshuvos Ya’avetz 107.
I am wondering whether learning status of a woman might affect the decision. If the husband typically is the posek in the house and instructs the wife what to do – then, his minhagim should have weight. You don’t expect him to go to his M-I-L and learn from her! But if the woman is learned on her own, whether BY or YI, she might not need to ask her husband and he might not need to interfere.May 5, 2022 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #2083597yehudis21Participant
Chas v’shalom. A man should never answer amen to a woman’s brachos, because it could lead to mixed dancing.May 5, 2022 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #2083645
“Chas v’shalom. A man should never answer amen to a woman’s brachos, because it could lead to mixed dancing….”
So true. I recall an episode several years ago where this guy responded with a geshmak “uumein” to a woman he heard benching gomel outside of the Empire kosher market on Empire Blvd and within 2-3 minutes they were seen doing the electric slide in the parking lot.May 12, 2022 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #2086103yehudis21Participant
Yep. See? I knew that would happen.May 12, 2022 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #2086242
You’re talking about in woodmere?May 18, 2022 10:41 am at 10:41 am #2088091tunaisafishParticipant
because of this sheila some congressmen are machmir and answer awomen instead of amen
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.