America should trade Taiwan for North Korea

America or Trump?

Does it ever occur to ask the people in Taiwan, which is a democracy, what they think?

Wouldn’t stabbing a democratic ally in the back be a precedent for stabbing Israel in the back?

China has already made it clear that if North Korea starts a war, they are on their own. Trump can freely nuke them (since under international law, one is allowed to nuke countries that have nukes), and let the South Koreans clean up the mess. If the US also offers to withdraw troops from that region (where they aren’t all that popular, and where it is expensive to station troops since these are all industrialized countries), the Chinese will be delighted.

And if the US can broker a pact with the Muslim Middle East whereby we drop support for Israel, thereby effectively forcing Israel to agree to some sort of “dhimmi” status jurisdiction under the Muslims, in exchange for the Muslims agreeing to stop terrorism against the western world and to keep the price of imported oil law, thereby promoting peace and prosperity in the western world.

There is much to be said for support for democracy and self-determination, even of small groups who lack the means to coerce others. An American that is based on moral principles is actually in our interests.

The US has no national interest in spending significant American blood to defend Taiwan. Taiwan and Beijing both agree they are part of the same nation. They only disagree who should govern it. This isn’t America’s fight. Just like we’re not going to send American troops to defend the Ukraine from Russia, we shouldn’t pretend we’re going to go to war with a nuclear armed China to defend Taiwan.

Beijing and Taiwan both claim to be the legitimate government of China. In fact, while Beijing calls the country the People’s Republic of China, Taiwan calls itself the Republic of China. They both agree that Beijing and Taiwan are part of the same nation and country.

“This isn’t America’s fight.”

Precisely what the French government said about Czechoslovakia in 1938. France and Czechoslovakia had a mutual defense agreement when France refused to uphold.

Britain was even worse. Winston Churchill was horrified, but he had made himself so obnoxious over the preceding decade that nobody cared what he thought. (In particular, he had fought to keep the Nazi sympathizer Edward VIII on the throne!) At least the Labour Party leader Clement Attlee spoke out:

“The Prime Minister has confidence in the good will and in the word of Herr Hitler, although when Herr Hitler broke the Treaty of Versailles he undertook to keep the Treaty of Locarno, and when he broke the Treaty of Locarno he undertook not to interfere further, or to have further territorial aims, in Europe. When he entered Austria by force he authorised his henchmen to give an authoritative assurance that he would not interfere with Czechoslovakia. That was less than six months ago.”

Ujm, Taiwan’s outdated claim to be the legitimate government of mainland China has been increasingly downplayed. I was just trying to make the point that Taiwan has recently been leaning away from mainland China in a more independent, nationalistic direction. If this keeps continuing, there might be a greater push for formal recognition of Taiwan as a sovereign county.

Taiwan is the #1 leader in semiconductor manufacturing worldwide. The US does not want China gaining dominance over such an important market. So even if you ignore the moral aspect that akuperma points out, there is still a serious national interest for the US to defend Taiwan. North Korea isn’t the up and coming rival of the US the way China is.

ujm, I agree we should not led Beijing to secede from the Republic of China that has an only freely elected government in the country. Maybe UN can help organize fair elections in the territories temporarily occupied by Communists.

@ujm
“The United States and the United Nations both recognize the Beijing government as the legitimate government of China. The US and the UN do not recognize Taiwan. And the US does not have diplomatic relations with Taiwan.”

That’s because the US stabbed Taiwan in the back to improve relations with China in 1979. The US used to have an embassy in Taipei and even had nuclear weapons on the island at one point.

It’s absurd to categorize Taiwan to some sort of secessionist movement from China. Taiwan has been self ruling since 1949 and has developed a healthy democracy and economy putting it at odds with Mainland China. Taiwan has long ago essentially seceded from Mainland China, it’s the PRC that can’t get over it.

“Taiwan is the #1 leader in semiconductor manufacturing worldwide. The US does not want China gaining dominance over such an important market… there is still a serious national interest for the US to defend Taiwan. North Korea isn’t the up and coming rival of the US the way China is.”

Marxist: America’s national interest would be much better served by the elimination of North Korea, via it being absorbed into South Korea, at the trade-off of granting China the benefits of acquiring Taiwan. North Korea is mortal nuclear threat to the world. Taiwan is, by comparison, only an economic advantage.

North Korea is developing ICBMs that can carry nuclear payloads to American cities.