America should trade Taiwan for North Korea

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  • #1238770
    Joseph
    Participant

    America should offer China to have its way with Taiwan in exchange for dismantling North Korea.

    #1238819
    Sadigurarebbe
    Participant

    America or Trump?

    #1238832
    Joseph
    Participant

    America via the President of the United States and his appointed officials.

    #1238915
    akuperma
    Participant

    Does it ever occur to ask the people in Taiwan, which is a democracy, what they think?

    Wouldn’t stabbing a democratic ally in the back be a precedent for stabbing Israel in the back?

    China has already made it clear that if North Korea starts a war, they are on their own. Trump can freely nuke them (since under international law, one is allowed to nuke countries that have nukes), and let the South Koreans clean up the mess. If the US also offers to withdraw troops from that region (where they aren’t all that popular, and where it is expensive to station troops since these are all industrialized countries), the Chinese will be delighted.

    #1238941
    Joseph
    Participant

    Taiwan is not entitled to indefinite US protection. If we can broker a Nixonian pact with China whereby we drop support for Taiwan, thereby effectively forcing Taiwan to agree to a Hong Kong type jurisdiction of China, in exchange for China dropping support and embargoing to death the regime in North Korea, thusly potentially averting a nuclear catastrophic war costing literally millions of lives, it is well well with it.

    #1239277
    akuperma
    Participant

    And if the US can broker a pact with the Muslim Middle East whereby we drop support for Israel, thereby effectively forcing Israel to agree to some sort of “dhimmi” status jurisdiction under the Muslims, in exchange for the Muslims agreeing to stop terrorism against the western world and to keep the price of imported oil law, thereby promoting peace and prosperity in the western world.

    There is much to be said for support for democracy and self-determination, even of small groups who lack the means to coerce others. An American that is based on moral principles is actually in our interests.

    #1239316
    Joseph
    Participant

    The people of Hong Kong wanted to remain under British jurisdiction rather than revert to Chinese jurisdiction, yet were not afforded that democratic option. Taiwan, everyone agrees including the Taiwanese, is a part of the same country Beijing is part of.

    If dhimmi status would truly bring peace in the Holy Land, then by all means we should go for it.

    #2043299
    ujm
    Participant

    The US has no national interest in spending significant American blood to defend Taiwan. Taiwan and Beijing both agree they are part of the same nation. They only disagree who should govern it. This isn’t America’s fight. Just like we’re not going to send American troops to defend the Ukraine from Russia, we shouldn’t pretend we’re going to go to war with a nuclear armed China to defend Taiwan.

    #2043326
    BennytheKvetch
    Participant

    ujm, I’m not sure the Taiwan and Beijing agree that they are still part of the same nation. Taiwanese people are 95% Han Chinese but Taiwan has effectively been a separate country for over 70 years. Since the Hong Kong takeover, nationalist sentiment seems to be increasing. The ruling DPP party has held a majority since 2016 and favors a national identity separate from mainland China.
    We wouldnt go to war with China if they ever invade Taiwan but we should continue to strengthen diplomatic ties with Taiwan. Both the Trump and Biden administrations are taking steps in this direction.

    #2043409
    ujm
    Participant

    Beijing and Taiwan both claim to be the legitimate government of China. In fact, while Beijing calls the country the People’s Republic of China, Taiwan calls itself the Republic of China. They both agree that Beijing and Taiwan are part of the same nation and country.

    #2043470
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    UJM: “Peace in our time”….I’m sure Chamberlin thought he was buying “peace” for Fortress Britain while delivering millions to the Nazis. Whats next? Trade Ukraine for Putin’s “agreement” not to attack any of the other former Soviet block countries (at least not for now)? Support Palestinian independence in return for Iran’s agreement to defer its nuclear program and not to attack tankers in the Gulf of Hormuz?

    #2043595
    charliehall
    Participant

    “This isn’t America’s fight.”

    Precisely what the French government said about Czechoslovakia in 1938. France and Czechoslovakia had a mutual defense agreement when France refused to uphold.

    Britain was even worse. Winston Churchill was horrified, but he had made himself so obnoxious over the preceding decade that nobody cared what he thought. (In particular, he had fought to keep the Nazi sympathizer Edward VIII on the throne!) At least the Labour Party leader Clement Attlee spoke out:

    “The Prime Minister has confidence in the good will and in the word of Herr Hitler, although when Herr Hitler broke the Treaty of Versailles he undertook to keep the Treaty of Locarno, and when he broke the Treaty of Locarno he undertook not to interfere further, or to have further territorial aims, in Europe. When he entered Austria by force he authorised his henchmen to give an authoritative assurance that he would not interfere with Czechoslovakia. That was less than six months ago.”

    #2043593

    Dictators/bullies always ask – what about just giving up this little, and we argue between each other whether give in or not, instead of confronting them. How about we turn the table around and ask those leaders – what do you want: money, women, power? How about we take a mid-size island in a Pacific, put there all Putins, Xis, Kims with their entourage and have live pageants and TV shows with whatever they desire. They can kill their enemies in videogames and win elections on TV. UN in their charter will guarantee their safety and $1 Tln annually for this.

    #2043612
    BennytheKvetch
    Participant

    Ujm, Taiwan’s outdated claim to be the legitimate government of mainland China has been increasingly downplayed. I was just trying to make the point that Taiwan has recently been leaning away from mainland China in a more independent, nationalistic direction. If this keeps continuing, there might be a greater push for formal recognition of Taiwan as a sovereign county.

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