March 19, 2017 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #1238770
America should offer China to have its way with Taiwan in exchange for dismantling North Korea.March 19, 2017 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #1238819SadigurarebbeParticipant
America or Trump?March 19, 2017 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm #1238832
America via the President of the United States and his appointed officials.March 19, 2017 9:04 pm at 9:04 pm #1238915akupermaParticipant
Does it ever occur to ask the people in Taiwan, which is a democracy, what they think?
Wouldn’t stabbing a democratic ally in the back be a precedent for stabbing Israel in the back?
China has already made it clear that if North Korea starts a war, they are on their own. Trump can freely nuke them (since under international law, one is allowed to nuke countries that have nukes), and let the South Koreans clean up the mess. If the US also offers to withdraw troops from that region (where they aren’t all that popular, and where it is expensive to station troops since these are all industrialized countries), the Chinese will be delighted.March 19, 2017 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm #1238941
Taiwan is not entitled to indefinite US protection. If we can broker a Nixonian pact with China whereby we drop support for Taiwan, thereby effectively forcing Taiwan to agree to a Hong Kong type jurisdiction of China, in exchange for China dropping support and embargoing to death the regime in North Korea, thusly potentially averting a nuclear catastrophic war costing literally millions of lives, it is well well with it.March 20, 2017 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #1239277akupermaParticipant
And if the US can broker a pact with the Muslim Middle East whereby we drop support for Israel, thereby effectively forcing Israel to agree to some sort of “dhimmi” status jurisdiction under the Muslims, in exchange for the Muslims agreeing to stop terrorism against the western world and to keep the price of imported oil law, thereby promoting peace and prosperity in the western world.
There is much to be said for support for democracy and self-determination, even of small groups who lack the means to coerce others. An American that is based on moral principles is actually in our interests.March 20, 2017 1:37 pm at 1:37 pm #1239316
The people of Hong Kong wanted to remain under British jurisdiction rather than revert to Chinese jurisdiction, yet were not afforded that democratic option. Taiwan, everyone agrees including the Taiwanese, is a part of the same country Beijing is part of.
If dhimmi status would truly bring peace in the Holy Land, then by all means we should go for it.December 19, 2021 10:55 pm at 10:55 pm #2043299
The US has no national interest in spending significant American blood to defend Taiwan. Taiwan and Beijing both agree they are part of the same nation. They only disagree who should govern it. This isn’t America’s fight. Just like we’re not going to send American troops to defend the Ukraine from Russia, we shouldn’t pretend we’re going to go to war with a nuclear armed China to defend Taiwan.December 20, 2021 10:00 am at 10:00 am #2043326BennytheKvetchParticipant
ujm, I’m not sure the Taiwan and Beijing agree that they are still part of the same nation. Taiwanese people are 95% Han Chinese but Taiwan has effectively been a separate country for over 70 years. Since the Hong Kong takeover, nationalist sentiment seems to be increasing. The ruling DPP party has held a majority since 2016 and favors a national identity separate from mainland China.
We wouldnt go to war with China if they ever invade Taiwan but we should continue to strengthen diplomatic ties with Taiwan. Both the Trump and Biden administrations are taking steps in this direction.December 20, 2021 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #2043409
Beijing and Taiwan both claim to be the legitimate government of China. In fact, while Beijing calls the country the People’s Republic of China, Taiwan calls itself the Republic of China. They both agree that Beijing and Taiwan are part of the same nation and country.December 20, 2021 1:29 pm at 1:29 pm #2043470GadolhadorahParticipant
UJM: “Peace in our time”….I’m sure Chamberlin thought he was buying “peace” for Fortress Britain while delivering millions to the Nazis. Whats next? Trade Ukraine for Putin’s “agreement” not to attack any of the other former Soviet block countries (at least not for now)? Support Palestinian independence in return for Iran’s agreement to defer its nuclear program and not to attack tankers in the Gulf of Hormuz?December 20, 2021 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #2043595charliehallParticipant
“This isn’t America’s fight.”
Precisely what the French government said about Czechoslovakia in 1938. France and Czechoslovakia had a mutual defense agreement when France refused to uphold.
Britain was even worse. Winston Churchill was horrified, but he had made himself so obnoxious over the preceding decade that nobody cared what he thought. (In particular, he had fought to keep the Nazi sympathizer Edward VIII on the throne!) At least the Labour Party leader Clement Attlee spoke out:
“The Prime Minister has confidence in the good will and in the word of Herr Hitler, although when Herr Hitler broke the Treaty of Versailles he undertook to keep the Treaty of Locarno, and when he broke the Treaty of Locarno he undertook not to interfere further, or to have further territorial aims, in Europe. When he entered Austria by force he authorised his henchmen to give an authoritative assurance that he would not interfere with Czechoslovakia. That was less than six months ago.”December 20, 2021 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #2043593
Dictators/bullies always ask – what about just giving up this little, and we argue between each other whether give in or not, instead of confronting them. How about we turn the table around and ask those leaders – what do you want: money, women, power? How about we take a mid-size island in a Pacific, put there all Putins, Xis, Kims with their entourage and have live pageants and TV shows with whatever they desire. They can kill their enemies in videogames and win elections on TV. UN in their charter will guarantee their safety and $1 Tln annually for this.December 20, 2021 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #2043612BennytheKvetchParticipant
Ujm, Taiwan’s outdated claim to be the legitimate government of mainland China has been increasingly downplayed. I was just trying to make the point that Taiwan has recently been leaning away from mainland China in a more independent, nationalistic direction. If this keeps continuing, there might be a greater push for formal recognition of Taiwan as a sovereign county.November 14, 2022 12:23 am at 12:23 am #2137872
Compromise ideas for the Xi-Biden Summit.November 14, 2022 12:17 pm at 12:17 pm #2137966MarxistParticipant
Taiwan is the #1 leader in semiconductor manufacturing worldwide. The US does not want China gaining dominance over such an important market. So even if you ignore the moral aspect that akuperma points out, there is still a serious national interest for the US to defend Taiwan. North Korea isn’t the up and coming rival of the US the way China is.November 14, 2022 12:24 pm at 12:24 pm #2137997
“Does it ever occur to ask the people in Taiwan, which is a democracy, what they think?”
akuperma: Did the US care that the people of the South wanted to secede and form the Confederacy? Did it occur that the people of Crimea wanted to secede from Ukraine?
If we allow Taiwan to secede from China, there’s no stopping the secessionists today in Spain (where Catalonia has already voted to secede), France, Bosnia (Republika Srpska) and others from seceding.
Everyone, including Taiwan (whose legal name is the “Republic of China”), acknowledges that Beijing and Taiwan are both part of the same country.
The British acknowledged China’s right to Hong Kong when they returned to it to China in 1997, despite the Hong Kongese preferring British rule.November 14, 2022 10:26 pm at 10:26 pm #2138252
ujm, I agree we should not led Beijing to secede from the Republic of China that has an only freely elected government in the country. Maybe UN can help organize fair elections in the territories temporarily occupied by Communists.November 15, 2022 2:16 am at 2:16 am #2138291
AAQ: The United States and the United Nations both recognize the Beijing government as the legitimate government of China. The US and the UN do not recognize Taiwan. And the US does not have diplomatic relations with Taiwan.November 15, 2022 1:11 pm at 1:11 pm #2138416MarxistParticipant
“The United States and the United Nations both recognize the Beijing government as the legitimate government of China. The US and the UN do not recognize Taiwan. And the US does not have diplomatic relations with Taiwan.”
That’s because the US stabbed Taiwan in the back to improve relations with China in 1979. The US used to have an embassy in Taipei and even had nuclear weapons on the island at one point.
It’s absurd to categorize Taiwan to some sort of secessionist movement from China. Taiwan has been self ruling since 1949 and has developed a healthy democracy and economy putting it at odds with Mainland China. Taiwan has long ago essentially seceded from Mainland China, it’s the PRC that can’t get over it.November 15, 2022 11:03 pm at 11:03 pm #2138639
How could Taiwan secede? from what? Communist China never had a fair election. Just use the right words. Ok, so US recognized the dictatorship in 1979. It does not change the fact that the only Chinese province where there were legitimate elections is Taiwan. Compare with current Ukraine – areas under Russian occupation lost their votes in their parliament and will get it back when the Russian armies go home or into the fertilizer. same with China. When areas occupied by communists will become free, they will vote. Until then, Taiwanese represent the country.November 15, 2022 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #2138649
“Taiwan is the #1 leader in semiconductor manufacturing worldwide. The US does not want China gaining dominance over such an important market… there is still a serious national interest for the US to defend Taiwan. North Korea isn’t the up and coming rival of the US the way China is.”
Marxist: America’s national interest would be much better served by the elimination of North Korea, via it being absorbed into South Korea, at the trade-off of granting China the benefits of acquiring Taiwan. North Korea is mortal nuclear threat to the world. Taiwan is, by comparison, only an economic advantage.November 16, 2022 12:02 am at 12:02 am #2138656AviraDeArahParticipant
Giving China an opportunity to become an economic superpower is a matter of US national security… North Korea has a one track mind. They want the south, and that’s the end of it – they don’t have worldwide hasagos like China.November 16, 2022 12:26 am at 12:26 am #2138661
North Korea is developing ICBMs that can carry nuclear payloads to American cities.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.